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	Comments on: The empty sham of debt-backed money.	</title>
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	<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/</link>
	<description>Author of THE DEBT GENERATION</description>
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		<title>
		By: Fuck The Government		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/#comment-372</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fuck The Government]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 May 2010 09:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/#comment-372</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&#034;The bankers poured sand in our sandwiches and people just tucked right in&#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You truly are the People&#039;s Poet, Sir!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Your instincts are right - what the Keynesians, Neo Keynesians or Monetarists or whatever the hell they call themselves these days who are running the economy don&#039;t understand is that real stuff comes first, then money.  NOT the other way round.  That&#039;s why Quantitative Easing can only give us higher prices and nothing else.  What&#039;s the first thing people do with the paper money they&#039;ve got on them if they get standed on a desert island?  Use it to start a fire.  &#039;Nuff said.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;The bankers poured sand in our sandwiches and people just tucked right in&quot;</p>
<p>You truly are the People&#39;s Poet, Sir!</p>
<p>Your instincts are right &#8211; what the Keynesians, Neo Keynesians or Monetarists or whatever the hell they call themselves these days who are running the economy don&#39;t understand is that real stuff comes first, then money.  NOT the other way round.  That&#39;s why Quantitative Easing can only give us higher prices and nothing else.  What&#39;s the first thing people do with the paper money they&#39;ve got on them if they get standed on a desert island?  Use it to start a fire.  &#39;Nuff said.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Golem XIV - Thoughts		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/#comment-369</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Golem XIV - Thoughts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 20:47:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/#comment-369</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Perhaps it&#039;s time we put some things at risk?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps it&#39;s time we put some things at risk?</p>
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		By: nopackdrill		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/#comment-367</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nopackdrill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 20:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/#comment-367</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The problem I see -and I think I am a &#039;gold-standard or nothing&#039; type of guy (I don’t trust the governments &#038; I don’t trust the Federal Reserve)- is that we the people would like to see a fair, honest &#038; honourable system and controls. In terms of power and influence, we are in the minority; those who have their (incompetent) hands on the tiller do not see any need to make the financial system equitable.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;They are quite happy printing money, bailing out their kind, and passing the cost onto the tax-payer. They will bend any rules they made earlier, or re-interpret them using some opt-out escape from responsibility.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is no reason to assume that what any of them think is a tolerable solution to this worldwide crisis, is remotely similar to what we have in mind. When they don’t like the figures –whether it is fantasy growth, CRE mark-to-myth, Bank stress-test, Greek debt, Repo 105, HFT volatility, Fanny &#038; Freddy mortgage defaults, M3 money, and so on - they just ignore them.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Never-ending economic summits in 5-Star resorts (all expenses paid) can shield you from reality quite nicely; and as was said last night on Newsnight (paraphrased somewhat) ‘If these guys fail, their academic tenure is not even at risk. The rest of us pay through the nose’]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem I see -and I think I am a &#39;gold-standard or nothing&#39; type of guy (I don’t trust the governments &amp; I don’t trust the Federal Reserve)- is that we the people would like to see a fair, honest &amp; honourable system and controls. In terms of power and influence, we are in the minority; those who have their (incompetent) hands on the tiller do not see any need to make the financial system equitable.</p>
<p>They are quite happy printing money, bailing out their kind, and passing the cost onto the tax-payer. They will bend any rules they made earlier, or re-interpret them using some opt-out escape from responsibility.</p>
<p>There is no reason to assume that what any of them think is a tolerable solution to this worldwide crisis, is remotely similar to what we have in mind. When they don’t like the figures –whether it is fantasy growth, CRE mark-to-myth, Bank stress-test, Greek debt, Repo 105, HFT volatility, Fanny &amp; Freddy mortgage defaults, M3 money, and so on &#8211; they just ignore them.</p>
<p>Never-ending economic summits in 5-Star resorts (all expenses paid) can shield you from reality quite nicely; and as was said last night on Newsnight (paraphrased somewhat) ‘If these guys fail, their academic tenure is not even at risk. The rest of us pay through the nose’</p>
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		<title>
		By: Golem XIV - Thoughts		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/#comment-365</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Golem XIV - Thoughts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 20:52:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/#comment-365</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Liam, &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I think it is &#039;holding to ransom&#039;.  It&#039;s Blackmail.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Liam, </p>
<p>I think it is &#39;holding to ransom&#39;.  It&#39;s Blackmail.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Liam		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/#comment-364</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Liam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 20:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/#comment-364</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What you have described is, to me, tantamount to holding countries to ransom. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There&#039;s a hideous asymmetry in the fact that the UK government is ignoring the pleas of the two British hostages held by Somalian pirates, yet heeding the banks&#039; cries for help when they say there is no &#039;confidence&#039;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you have described is, to me, tantamount to holding countries to ransom. </p>
<p>There&#39;s a hideous asymmetry in the fact that the UK government is ignoring the pleas of the two British hostages held by Somalian pirates, yet heeding the banks&#39; cries for help when they say there is no &#39;confidence&#39;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tam		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/#comment-363</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 13:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/#comment-363</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[By the way, not sure about your theory but if there&#039;s anything in it, I&#039;d say it&#039;s tied into a general breakdown of trust in society (because of course, money needs trust to work).  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It&#039;s probably slightly off the subject (my speciality...) but Peter Owen Jones&#039; recent series on trying to live and travel without money has been thought provoking stuff; it wasn&#039;t easy (even with a cameraman in tow) and he reckons there&#039;s a lot less trust around than there was a while back.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/7687158/Rev-Peter-Owen-Jones-Taking-financial-advice-from-St-Francis-of-Assisi.html]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, not sure about your theory but if there&#39;s anything in it, I&#39;d say it&#39;s tied into a general breakdown of trust in society (because of course, money needs trust to work).  </p>
<p>It&#39;s probably slightly off the subject (my speciality&#8230;) but Peter Owen Jones&#39; recent series on trying to live and travel without money has been thought provoking stuff; it wasn&#39;t easy (even with a cameraman in tow) and he reckons there&#39;s a lot less trust around than there was a while back.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/7687158/Rev-Peter-Owen-Jones-Taking-financial-advice-from-St-Francis-of-Assisi.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/7687158/Rev-Peter-Owen-Jones-Taking-financial-advice-from-St-Francis-of-Assisi.html</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Tam		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/#comment-362</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 13:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/#comment-362</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I thought this was a good article about the bank stress tests a while back.  Probably doesn&#039;t tell you much you don&#039;t already know, but it&#039;s entertainingly written&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;http://exiledonline.com/the-stress-test-scam/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought this was a good article about the bank stress tests a while back.  Probably doesn&#39;t tell you much you don&#39;t already know, but it&#39;s entertainingly written</p>
<p><a href="http://exiledonline.com/the-stress-test-scam/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://exiledonline.com/the-stress-test-scam/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Golem XIV - Thoughts		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/#comment-360</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Golem XIV - Thoughts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 07:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/#comment-360</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mr and Ned,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I contend that the nature of o ey has changed findamentally in the last 15 tears.  The theiry of fiat currency is outdated and fails to captuyre most of what is important about money and finance.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;For a start it is not central governments who &#039;print&#039; the money nor who have any control over how much.  Natinal currencies are printed, but they are a fraction of the amount of debt-backed currency which the babnks &#039;print&#039;.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;They control both the supply and what it is based on/ backed by.  This is the root of our crisis.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have written about this on and off for two years or so and thought I should return to it. I will write more in the next few days.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thank you for the link. I will read with interest.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr and Ned,</p>
<p>I contend that the nature of o ey has changed findamentally in the last 15 tears.  The theiry of fiat currency is outdated and fails to captuyre most of what is important about money and finance.</p>
<p>For a start it is not central governments who &#39;print&#39; the money nor who have any control over how much.  Natinal currencies are printed, but they are a fraction of the amount of debt-backed currency which the babnks &#39;print&#39;.  </p>
<p>They control both the supply and what it is based on/ backed by.  This is the root of our crisis.</p>
<p>I have written about this on and off for two years or so and thought I should return to it. I will write more in the next few days.</p>
<p>Thank you for the link. I will read with interest.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ned		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/#comment-359</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ned]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 06:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/#comment-359</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Golem&lt;br /&gt;This relates to my previous comment. The quote is from the Guppy article. One of the most interesting things it looks at his how the creation of debt, without any matching basis in the real world results in the decoupling/peeling away of the financial from the &#034;real economy&#034; something you have written about on a number of occasions&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;For while that money, which by now has mutated into a vast monster of mutual indebtedness, grows exponentially, the wealth it is supposed to represent cannot grow at the same pace for very long. While there is no limit to the number of zeros we can create on a computer, there is a limit to the amount of oil in the ground, the wheat in the fields and the livestock in our farms.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Capitalism, banking and growth become inseparable, but logic dictates that the virtual economy must eventually peel away from the real one and sooner or later the day of reckoning arrives – when the gulf separating these two economies is too large to be sustained – for no power on earth can match the power of compound interest in the ether.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Golem<br />This relates to my previous comment. The quote is from the Guppy article. One of the most interesting things it looks at his how the creation of debt, without any matching basis in the real world results in the decoupling/peeling away of the financial from the &quot;real economy&quot; something you have written about on a number of occasions</p>
<p>For while that money, which by now has mutated into a vast monster of mutual indebtedness, grows exponentially, the wealth it is supposed to represent cannot grow at the same pace for very long. While there is no limit to the number of zeros we can create on a computer, there is a limit to the amount of oil in the ground, the wheat in the fields and the livestock in our farms.</p>
<p>Capitalism, banking and growth become inseparable, but logic dictates that the virtual economy must eventually peel away from the real one and sooner or later the day of reckoning arrives – when the gulf separating these two economies is too large to be sustained – for no power on earth can match the power of compound interest in the ether.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mr		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/#comment-358</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 05:56:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/05/the-empty-sham-of-debt-backed-money/#comment-358</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Golem&lt;br /&gt;There was a quite brilliant article by Darius Guppy in the Telegraph earlier this year looking at this very question. Anyone who follows your blog should find it very interesting&lt;br /&gt;http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/features/7280559/Our-world-balances-on-a-sea-of-debt.html&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Ned]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Golem<br />There was a quite brilliant article by Darius Guppy in the Telegraph earlier this year looking at this very question. Anyone who follows your blog should find it very interesting<br /><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/features/7280559/Our-world-balances-on-a-sea-of-debt.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/features/7280559/Our-world-balances-on-a-sea-of-debt.html</a></p>
<p>Ned</p>
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