Sorry to disappear – was away for a couple of days.

I don't think we really disagree. I just wanted to make sure you weren't ruling out demos. I don't think they'll be successful by themselves either but they are crucial because they have an impact beyond the immediate and direct consequences.

Golem – thanks for rescuing my earlier posts!

Looks like they are trying to revive some type of exchange that apparently failed not long ago:

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/good-news-layoffs

Please note who the main investors in the exchange are (were) –

Quote: "New job losses would not ordinarily qualify as good news, but Reuters reports that a lack of Senate action on cap-and-trade legislation is forcing the Chicago Climate Exchange to lay off about half of its remaining “really talented” 50-employee staff.

The first round of layoffs by owner Intercontinental Exchange Inc., which acquired CCX in April for $604 million, began July 23 when about 20 people were let go. Employees were reportedly told that the American marketplace for carbon credits was being “restructured.”

The only surprise is that Richard Sandor, who founded CCX in 2003 and was dubbed a Time Magazine “Hero of the Environment” in 2007, is being retained as an advisor. “Voluntary” trading of greenhouse gas emissions on CCX has all but dried up and prices have plunged from a high of over $7 per ton in 2008 to just 10 cents now, making recent stock market losses look rosy by comparison. Not exactly what Sandor, who once predicted a $10 trillion worldwide carbon market, expected would happen.

The biggest losers have been CCX’s two biggest investors — Al Gore’s Generation Investment Management and Goldman Sachs — and President Obama, who helped launch CCX with funding from the Joyce Foundation, where he and presidential advisor Valerie Jarrett once sat on the board of directors."

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/good-news-layoffs#ixzz18UTjVDce

In a debt based fiat monetary system, the attention of the governing elites can be secured simply by shunning the banks. Boycott banks and accumulate small amounts of physical silver and gold bullion.

Quiet, legal, safe and devastatingly effective at short, medium and long term.

No need to scream and run around brandishing tools. Shun the banks.

Are you prepared to pay the price of freedom?

Sorry about the double posts – it keeps telling me they're too big (you'd think i'd take the hint) and then posting them anyway (just to be nice)

Also want to apologise to any Americans on here if I was rude above – its just your Pentagon's future plans scare the living sh*t out of me – that in combination with the Tea Party/Palinistas means sometimes I find myself getting all apopcalyptic. Anyway going on holidays from the internet for a few days – probably much needed!

PS. I'm in know way directing those questions personally to you I'm just trying to point out the need to highlight all available means of protest – they should all be used in concert and with as unified a message as possible, without getting into a ' And the Promised land will look like this' type scenario.
I love seeing these protests I find it absolutely heart-warming to see people still care that much – but many more people will come to your cause if it fits into their schedule more easily!
Phew! – I ramble someting wicked – don't hire me as your 'on message person'. Do however talk to some people who've done well in Media Studies. Who knows Media Studies may prove useful yet – YAY!

I do think you're right about getting out on the streets, and demonstrating the numbers behind a movement – and definitely consumer action will only have effect if it becomes a widespread movement – but I don't agree that corporations simply dismiss these things so easily – or that they are ineffective. To give an example when I was growing up you could basically only buy detergent from one of two giant corps – Unilever and Procter & Gamble- sure there's loads of brands- but only 2 manufacturers. Now I can go to my local health store and buy one that's eco friendly and made here in Ireland by a small start up company.
Ethical production has given many small suppliers a way to break into previously monopolised markets and the main brands are falling over themselves trying to put a green spin on their products. We have had only the very dampest squibs of green demos here and yet this has happened. So I think consumer action can effect change, and it can reveal a greater level of support than street demos alone can (due to work/school/location/schedule issues) I think we have to put our money where are hearts are when it comes to the kind of society we want. Very right wing people in America are constantly pouring huge amounts of money into think tanks and lobbying for all kinds of social engineering and we to need to show economic support for the kind of society we want to live in if we don't want our world to be shaped by these neo-liberal agendas.

I guess I am just trying to point to other means of protest as well as demonstrating, one that's just as possible for busy working parents who are scared of losing their jobs and little old grannies as well as students.

I usually check frequently and set them free, but I have been away for a couple od days working and only just got back.

Thank you for taking care of the shop with such great discussions.

Hi Rebecca,

I'm digging your ideas and your passion here but I would urge caution when it comes to dismissing traditional forms of protest altogether.

Firstly, governments and corporations are not afraid of the individual. Rightly or wrongly, they assume that the individual acting alone can achieve nothing of any significance. Your emails can be dismissed and you can be given the brush off ad infinitum. You will be seen as a crank (by politicians) or someone who doesn't fall into the target audience (by corporations). The MP will send out their stock response on the subject and thereafter ignore you. The company does the same with their CSR bumf. Individuals don't make them sweat.

They are afraid of the public. They are afraid of movements. They are afraid of the masses. There is no more immediate expression of mass discontent than thousands of people demonstrating together. You are right to say that we have to gather in large numbers – but this only has an effect on the politicians when they see this as a manifestation of the power inherent in the public. When they remember that they hold their offices only with our consent.

The recent student protests have scared the government so much that they are now discussing bringing in water cannons and even banning protest altogether. I don't see that as a government win. Although the immediate objective of the protest (getting a 'no' vote) was lost, the effect has reverberated and will influence government policy going forward.

Johann Hari has written an excellent piece on the power of protest here.

Secondly, I think you're kind of putting the cart before the horse.

Demonstrations gain publicity for the causes they promote. They attract new people to the issues. They raise the level of public debate. Without this kind of exposure you'll never attract enough individuals to make the letter writing and exercising of consumer power significant enough. The only way to form links strong enough to bond people to the cause and gain their loyalty is through old fashoined face-to-face campaigning. Handing out flyers on the street, marching and occupying shops may not be sophisticated but it is necessary to create these strong links that can prompt people to do more than just send a couple of emails. If they know the people they're working with, can put names to faces*, they'll be more inclined to continue and to make further sacrifices of their time and effort.

I don't want to labour the point but I think dismissing traditional forms of protest is counterproductive. There is no silver bullet, no quick win. We'll need a full spectrum of protest, civil disobedience and resistance in order to combat the massively powerful forces that are ranged against us. Our methods must be as varied and persistent as those of our enemies.

*I don't think it's a coincidence that the number of subscribers to this blog started shooting up when David abandoned his anonymity.