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	Comments on: Guest post by Hawkeye &#8211; Wall Street fiddles whilst the US burns	</title>
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	<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/04/guest-post-by-hawkeye-wall-street-fiddles-whilst-the-us-burns/</link>
	<description>Author of THE DEBT GENERATION</description>
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		<title>
		By: Hawkeye		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/04/guest-post-by-hawkeye-wall-street-fiddles-whilst-the-us-burns/#comment-3687</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hawkeye]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Apr 2011 10:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/04/guest-post-by-hawkeye-wall-street-fiddles-whilst-the-us-burns/#comment-3687</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Fungus&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Your premise relies on the assumption that the US remains a coherent nation state, and that it actually holds a substantial amount of gold in sovereign hands.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If the dollar gets a major thrashing then gold holdings will likely end up in private hands with no national allegiance. The US military empire is intertwined with the petro-dollar standard. Once that link breaks, all bets are off.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fungus</p>
<p>Your premise relies on the assumption that the US remains a coherent nation state, and that it actually holds a substantial amount of gold in sovereign hands.</p>
<p>If the dollar gets a major thrashing then gold holdings will likely end up in private hands with no national allegiance. The US military empire is intertwined with the petro-dollar standard. Once that link breaks, all bets are off.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hawkeye		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/04/guest-post-by-hawkeye-wall-street-fiddles-whilst-the-us-burns/#comment-3686</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hawkeye]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Apr 2011 10:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[Ahimsa&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A thought provoking question, so forgive my somewhat long response.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Yes, certainly there have many instances of debt jubilees in history (indeed the biblical term of “forgiveness” is reputed to refer to financial debt “forgiveness” as much as it is to forgiving other unjust actions).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I guess the point that FOFOA is making (and that I am emphasising) is that direct debt cancellation is so far removed from being a possibility that a third, more subtle means is more likely; hyperinflation is a form of debt cancellation, but one that destroys the currency (and many aspects of an economy) in it’s actions. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The book “Fiat Paper Money” by Ralph Foster suggests more than 6,000 fiat currencies have disappeared over the years (hundreds in the last few decades alone). Hyperinflation is just one dramatic way in which these currencies die a death (no paper currency lasts forever).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In instances of debt enforcement I posit that wealth becomes more concentrated, whereas debt cancellation / forgiveness actually has wealth equalising consequences (I hope to produce some Agent Based Modelling of this theory at some point over the summer). Enforcing debt through bail-outs and austerity means that both the borrower and society at large pays the price for bad credit creation. Lenders are not taking the hit.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Seen in these terms, the issue is then one of understanding whether the forces of wealth concentration continue to dominate. A rapid debasement of the US currency (along with the other interconnected fiat currencies) just escalates the wealth concentration stratagem. It socialises the “hit” just as badly as bailouts and austerity (just much more subtle). And in a way, the strategy isn’t new, Joseph Tainter’s excellent theory on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.goldonomic.com/tainter.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;collapse of complex societies&lt;/a&gt; suggests that this approach of debasing the currency was enacted throughout the dying phases of the Roman empire.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahimsa</p>
<p>A thought provoking question, so forgive my somewhat long response.</p>
<p>Yes, certainly there have many instances of debt jubilees in history (indeed the biblical term of “forgiveness” is reputed to refer to financial debt “forgiveness” as much as it is to forgiving other unjust actions).</p>
<p>I guess the point that FOFOA is making (and that I am emphasising) is that direct debt cancellation is so far removed from being a possibility that a third, more subtle means is more likely; hyperinflation is a form of debt cancellation, but one that destroys the currency (and many aspects of an economy) in it’s actions. </p>
<p>The book “Fiat Paper Money” by Ralph Foster suggests more than 6,000 fiat currencies have disappeared over the years (hundreds in the last few decades alone). Hyperinflation is just one dramatic way in which these currencies die a death (no paper currency lasts forever).</p>
<p>In instances of debt enforcement I posit that wealth becomes more concentrated, whereas debt cancellation / forgiveness actually has wealth equalising consequences (I hope to produce some Agent Based Modelling of this theory at some point over the summer). Enforcing debt through bail-outs and austerity means that both the borrower and society at large pays the price for bad credit creation. Lenders are not taking the hit.</p>
<p>Seen in these terms, the issue is then one of understanding whether the forces of wealth concentration continue to dominate. A rapid debasement of the US currency (along with the other interconnected fiat currencies) just escalates the wealth concentration stratagem. It socialises the “hit” just as badly as bailouts and austerity (just much more subtle). And in a way, the strategy isn’t new, Joseph Tainter’s excellent theory on the <a href="http://www.goldonomic.com/tainter.htm" rel="nofollow">collapse of complex societies</a> suggests that this approach of debasing the currency was enacted throughout the dying phases of the Roman empire.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Fungus FitzJuggler III		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/04/guest-post-by-hawkeye-wall-street-fiddles-whilst-the-us-burns/#comment-3685</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fungus FitzJuggler III]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Apr 2011 06:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/04/guest-post-by-hawkeye-wall-street-fiddles-whilst-the-us-burns/#comment-3685</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hawkeye confuses the           Golden Rule.      &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Easy to do.    Normal rendition not relevant the proper version  is     here:         &#034;He   who has the   means to take the gold makes the rules. &#034;           &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;USA tortures the innocent, invades other countries and uses nukes covertly, off Aceh in 2004. So?                  Of          course their        criminal gangs bend the financial rules. They accumulate all                                                         the         power that        way.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;However, when they     come to   attack China, in self defence of course,    they                                    may    get                            a                                nasty surprise.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hawkeye confuses the           Golden Rule.      </p>
<p>Easy to do.    Normal rendition not relevant the proper version  is     here:         &quot;He   who has the   means to take the gold makes the rules. &quot;           </p>
<p>USA tortures the innocent, invades other countries and uses nukes covertly, off Aceh in 2004. So?                  Of          course their        criminal gangs bend the financial rules. They accumulate all                                                         the         power that        way.  </p>
<p>However, when they     come to   attack China, in self defence of course,    they                                    may    get                            a                                nasty surprise.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ahimsa		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/04/guest-post-by-hawkeye-wall-street-fiddles-whilst-the-us-burns/#comment-3683</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ahimsa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Apr 2011 18:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/04/guest-post-by-hawkeye-wall-street-fiddles-whilst-the-us-burns/#comment-3683</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Hawkeye&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Re FoFoA&#039;s article:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;He makes an curious societal division of debtor vs saver (as apposed to labour vs capital)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;Ultimately, every penny of every debt must be paid — if not by the borrower, then by the lender..&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;However, if modernday lenders never had the money in the first place to genuinely lend, in what sense do they end up paying the debt if borrowers default?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;..there is a third option that is missing…the hit can be socialized. Human nature has followed this path for thousands of years.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Previously human societies followed the path of debt forgivenss and debt jubilees for thousands of years, why is there currently zero appetite for this debt destruction?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Hawkeye</p>
<p>Re FoFoA&#39;s article:</p>
<p>He makes an curious societal division of debtor vs saver (as apposed to labour vs capital)</p>
<p><i>Ultimately, every penny of every debt must be paid — if not by the borrower, then by the lender..</i></p>
<p>However, if modernday lenders never had the money in the first place to genuinely lend, in what sense do they end up paying the debt if borrowers default?</p>
<p><i>..there is a third option that is missing…the hit can be socialized. Human nature has followed this path for thousands of years.</i></p>
<p>Previously human societies followed the path of debt forgivenss and debt jubilees for thousands of years, why is there currently zero appetite for this debt destruction?</p>
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