"I think you are right that 'free markets' are the deal breaker. But I wonder if people would be willing to discuss some notion of 'markets' other than the libertarian, anti society 'free' markets?"

Well, this is how the deal is broken – two people agreeing that liberty is the goal, but both disagreeing over the relation between the market and people.

I'm not especially libertarian, but the market as society seems the fairest – least corruptible – way to analyse our relations.

I stick with the idea that you enter into bargains of your own will and take the consequences. If the bargain is not of your own will, then the consequences are mitigated are nullified. But that doesn't require politics, just a rule of law. And the rule of law requires juries to make the decisions – should be increasingly simple with electronic communication, but we're heading in the opposite direction.

On the sites the word is REBOOT EUROPE! This is something at last to wake up the idiots in charge

I think you are right that 'free markets' are the deal breaker. But I wonder if people would be willing to discuss some notion of 'markets' other than the libertarian, anti society 'free' markets?

"Left and Right is irrelevant. What matters is if any of them are willing to uphold the rule of law, stand up for their people and their nation and allow real democracy. If they won't, if there is no way of having a real debate and be offered the chance to say "No, I will not bail out your banks" then the Spanish are right – this shit is NOT democracy. In which case we owe such a charade no allegiance at all."

Golem, I think you commented recently that it was surprising socialists and libertarians enjoyed some measure of agreement. If you include in your paragraph quoted above the principle of a free market, it might be even more surprising. Except those principles are basic assumptions for honest people.

I include the free market, but that raises hackles, and I suspect is a deal breaker for a united opposition to the theft.

"The institutions and political system of Europe have grown fat and stupid and care for nothing now save their own comfort, wealth and privilege. The social and political contract across Europe has been broken and nullified and therefore we, the peoples of this wonderful varied and vibrant place, the people who make it so, have the right and duty to take to the streets and the squares to defend all that is good here and to burn down and cast out what is attacking it."

Amen!

Here's a link to a webcam set up in Puerta del Sol, if anyone wants to see the state of play in real time:

http://www.soltv.tv/soltv2/index.html

Fairly chilled at the moment…

(The report on CNN only showed images from in front of the Courthouse in the north of Madrid (not Sol), where fewer people are protesting for the 7-10 people that got arrested Sunday night – not sure if to deliberately make it look like there were less)

The "electoral board" has voted to declare the protests illegal as of Saturday and Sunday…

Ok on this blog we read around places like zerohedge and this blog, one of the few last bastions of sanity,but what percentage of the population are we?

Oh well I will plough my lonely furrow and spread the word as far as I van. VIVA the keyboard warriors.

bill40

"This shit is not democracy!"

I love it, brilliant!

The shining light of truth. Doesn't it sound great in Spanish too 🙂

Thanks for your post, Golem, I hadn't seen this.

How long can main stream media churnalists keep pretending otherwise?

(Seems the penny's dropped for Mr Myers – '…two successive governments have behaved like kapos, the trustee prisoners who, for what seemed to them to be sound reasons, did the bidding of (and thereby made life easier for) the concentration camp commandants." Strong stuff!! )

I hope the Spanish spring has come!