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	Comments on: European banking support coming apart	</title>
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	<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/08/european-banking-support-coming-apart/</link>
	<description>Author of THE DEBT GENERATION</description>
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		<title>
		By: Neil		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/08/european-banking-support-coming-apart/#comment-4606</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 14:57:15 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[Forensic Statistician, I agree 100% about white-collar looting. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;On the US front, it&#039;s useful to recall a piece by the excellent Matt Taibbi: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-isnt-wall-street-in-jail-20110216 . &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Closer to home, of course, we have Whistleblower.irl&#039;s experience. All this is part of the Augean stables that desperately need to be flushed out. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But really taking on the power of feral global capital calls for a global political solution, and I don&#039;t see one in the offing, despite the financial crisis. I hope I&#039;m wrong.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forensic Statistician, I agree 100% about white-collar looting. </p>
<p>On the US front, it&#39;s useful to recall a piece by the excellent Matt Taibbi: <a href="http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-isnt-wall-street-in-jail-20110216" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-isnt-wall-street-in-jail-20110216</a> . </p>
<p>Closer to home, of course, we have Whistleblower.irl&#39;s experience. All this is part of the Augean stables that desperately need to be flushed out. </p>
<p>But really taking on the power of feral global capital calls for a global political solution, and I don&#39;t see one in the offing, despite the financial crisis. I hope I&#39;m wrong.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Neil		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/08/european-banking-support-coming-apart/#comment-4601</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 12:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/08/european-banking-support-coming-apart/#comment-4601</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[One Hackney woman&#039;s view of the riots: http://opendalston.blogspot.com/2011/08/one-hackney-womans-view-of-riots.html .&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Meanwhile, here&#039;s a set of debt charts on the Economist website at http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/07/world-debt-guide .&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Some unexpected (to me) results (Ireland isn&#039;t included):&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1. Of those countries covered, Britain is top for overall debt (495%), followed by Japan (492%), with the US at 288% and Germany at 282%.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2. Government debt: Japan 210%, Italy 110%, followed by France, Germany, US and Britain.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;3. Household debt as % of GDP: Switzerland 118, Britain 99 (approx.).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;4. Financial debt as % of GDP: Britain 205, Japan 119 (approx.).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;5. Non-financial debt as % of GDP: Spain 136, France 118, Britain 116 (approx.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One Hackney woman&#39;s view of the riots: <a href="http://opendalston.blogspot.com/2011/08/one-hackney-womans-view-of-riots.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://opendalston.blogspot.com/2011/08/one-hackney-womans-view-of-riots.html</a> .</p>
<p>Meanwhile, here&#39;s a set of debt charts on the Economist website at <a href="http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/07/world-debt-guide" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/07/world-debt-guide</a> .</p>
<p>Some unexpected (to me) results (Ireland isn&#39;t included):</p>
<p>1. Of those countries covered, Britain is top for overall debt (495%), followed by Japan (492%), with the US at 288% and Germany at 282%.</p>
<p>2. Government debt: Japan 210%, Italy 110%, followed by France, Germany, US and Britain.</p>
<p>3. Household debt as % of GDP: Switzerland 118, Britain 99 (approx.).</p>
<p>4. Financial debt as % of GDP: Britain 205, Japan 119 (approx.).</p>
<p>5. Non-financial debt as % of GDP: Spain 136, France 118, Britain 116 (approx.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: forensicstatistician		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/08/european-banking-support-coming-apart/#comment-4600</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[forensicstatistician]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 12:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/08/european-banking-support-coming-apart/#comment-4600</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[These yoofs are mere amateurs.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;White collar Looting is far more endemic:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In 1993 Akerlof and Paul Romer brought forth Looting: The Economic Underworld of Bankruptcy for Profit, describing how under certain conditions, owners of corporations will decide it is more profitable for them personally to &#039;loot&#039; the company and &#039;extract value&#039; from it instead of trying to make it grow and prosper:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&#034;Bankruptcy for profit will occur if poor accounting, lax regulation, or low penalties for abuse give owners an incentive to pay themselves more than their firms are worth and then default on their debt obligations. Bankruptcy for profit occurs most commonly when a government guarantees a firm&#039;s debt obligations.&#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Yves Smith argues in her book &#034;Econned&#034; that Akerlof and Romer&#039;s &#034;Looting&#034; theory applies to the subprime mortgage crisis and the Financial crisis of 2007-2010. She argues that the &#039;Looted&#039; companies in this case are banks and others who were &#039;looted&#039; by certain traders and executives within those companies.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Akerlof#Looting&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;See also pg7 of my ICB submission:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;http://forensicstatistician.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/icb-submission-nov-2010.pdf&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The evidence is there for all to see, yet no regulators, police, politicians or the public seem to care.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These yoofs are mere amateurs.</p>
<p>White collar Looting is far more endemic:</p>
<p>In 1993 Akerlof and Paul Romer brought forth Looting: The Economic Underworld of Bankruptcy for Profit, describing how under certain conditions, owners of corporations will decide it is more profitable for them personally to &#39;loot&#39; the company and &#39;extract value&#39; from it instead of trying to make it grow and prosper:</p>
<p>&quot;Bankruptcy for profit will occur if poor accounting, lax regulation, or low penalties for abuse give owners an incentive to pay themselves more than their firms are worth and then default on their debt obligations. Bankruptcy for profit occurs most commonly when a government guarantees a firm&#39;s debt obligations.&quot;</p>
<p>Yves Smith argues in her book &quot;Econned&quot; that Akerlof and Romer&#39;s &quot;Looting&quot; theory applies to the subprime mortgage crisis and the Financial crisis of 2007-2010. She argues that the &#39;Looted&#39; companies in this case are banks and others who were &#39;looted&#39; by certain traders and executives within those companies.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Akerlof#Looting" rel="nofollow ugc">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Akerlof#Looting</a></p>
<p>See also pg7 of my ICB submission:</p>
<p><a href="http://forensicstatistician.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/icb-submission-nov-2010.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://forensicstatistician.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/icb-submission-nov-2010.pdf</a></p>
<p>The evidence is there for all to see, yet no regulators, police, politicians or the public seem to care.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Golem XIV - Thoughts		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/08/european-banking-support-coming-apart/#comment-4599</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Golem XIV - Thoughts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 11:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/08/european-banking-support-coming-apart/#comment-4599</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The difference is that when the banks and the financial elite loot there are nods of aproval and murmurs of, &#034;We have no choice. There is no alternative.&#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When the poor and disgruntled loot we have righteous cries of &#034;Send in the riot police and the Army. This is just pure lawlessness.&#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; What pray tell was it when the banks lied about how sound their finances were, how solid their loan books were or how much they owed to each other? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Goose and Gander! Our lords don&#039;t like it when people break the law and burn shit down? It&#039;s messy and innocent people get harmed. Then enforce the law equally upon the rich as you would do on the poor.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Otherwise, as a billionaire said not long ago to the ranks of the poor - &#034;Suck it up.&#034;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The difference is that when the banks and the financial elite loot there are nods of aproval and murmurs of, &quot;We have no choice. There is no alternative.&quot;</p>
<p>When the poor and disgruntled loot we have righteous cries of &quot;Send in the riot police and the Army. This is just pure lawlessness.&quot;</p>
<p> What pray tell was it when the banks lied about how sound their finances were, how solid their loan books were or how much they owed to each other? </p>
<p>Goose and Gander! Our lords don&#39;t like it when people break the law and burn shit down? It&#39;s messy and innocent people get harmed. Then enforce the law equally upon the rich as you would do on the poor.</p>
<p>Otherwise, as a billionaire said not long ago to the ranks of the poor &#8211; &quot;Suck it up.&quot;</p>
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		By: mohenko		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/08/european-banking-support-coming-apart/#comment-4598</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mohenko]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 11:07:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/08/european-banking-support-coming-apart/#comment-4598</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[looting by the elite,&lt;br /&gt;looting on the street:&lt;br /&gt;as above, so below]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>looting by the elite,<br />looting on the street:<br />as above, so below</p>
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		By: forensicstatistician		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/08/european-banking-support-coming-apart/#comment-4597</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[forensicstatistician]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 09:06:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/08/european-banking-support-coming-apart/#comment-4597</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Britain is waking up battered, bruised and somewhat confused.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Worryingly, this will be the state of the nation for many years ahead.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The most troubling outcome of the riots, is the widening divisions between people trying to understand what caused the problem and what should be the nations response.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The article below has a cogent analysis, somewhat surprising for the Telegraph:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&#034;The real causes are more insidious. It is no coincidence that the worst violence London has seen in many decades takes place against the backdrop of a global economy poised for freefall. The causes of recession set out by J K Galbraith in his book, The Great Crash 1929, were as follows: bad income distribution, a business sector engaged in “corporate larceny”, a weak banking structure and an import/export imbalance.&#034;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Yep. We’ve got all those symptoms – and SuperSized too!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But sort the comments by &#034;Highest Rated&#034; and see the mass jingoism of the working &#038; middle class Right:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8630533/Riots-the-underclass-lashes-out.html]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Britain is waking up battered, bruised and somewhat confused.</p>
<p>Worryingly, this will be the state of the nation for many years ahead.</p>
<p>The most troubling outcome of the riots, is the widening divisions between people trying to understand what caused the problem and what should be the nations response.</p>
<p>The article below has a cogent analysis, somewhat surprising for the Telegraph:</p>
<p>&quot;The real causes are more insidious. It is no coincidence that the worst violence London has seen in many decades takes place against the backdrop of a global economy poised for freefall. The causes of recession set out by J K Galbraith in his book, The Great Crash 1929, were as follows: bad income distribution, a business sector engaged in “corporate larceny”, a weak banking structure and an import/export imbalance.&quot;</p>
<p>Yep. We’ve got all those symptoms – and SuperSized too!</p>
<p>But sort the comments by &quot;Highest Rated&quot; and see the mass jingoism of the working &amp; middle class Right:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8630533/Riots-the-underclass-lashes-out.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8630533/Riots-the-underclass-lashes-out.html</a></p>
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		By: Paddy Fields		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/08/european-banking-support-coming-apart/#comment-4596</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paddy Fields]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 02:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/08/european-banking-support-coming-apart/#comment-4596</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Golem&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I think it&#039;s bluff calling time for the ECB . The euro is all but finished, maybe weakening the German market is a bid to weaken its want to keep it all going. after all if they start to feel the pain directly themselves are they really going to want to give over their reserves to another nation to save its ass? I don&#039;t think so. They are the super power in Europe so hit them where it hurts and the rest are easy pickings. Gold has hit $1749 in the last while, these are interesting times, the rush to the bottom is on!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Golem</p>
<p>I think it&#39;s bluff calling time for the ECB . The euro is all but finished, maybe weakening the German market is a bid to weaken its want to keep it all going. after all if they start to feel the pain directly themselves are they really going to want to give over their reserves to another nation to save its ass? I don&#39;t think so. They are the super power in Europe so hit them where it hurts and the rest are easy pickings. Gold has hit $1749 in the last while, these are interesting times, the rush to the bottom is on!</p>
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		By: Goalscoringsuperstarhero		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/08/european-banking-support-coming-apart/#comment-4595</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Goalscoringsuperstarhero]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 23:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/08/european-banking-support-coming-apart/#comment-4595</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Golem, &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;once again a sharp analysis, thanks!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Deutsche Bank will not be left to fail if possible, Ackermann is a buddy too close to Merkel. It is the German Anglo in terms of government ties, and with its tentacles reaching out to every aspect of German finance I would guess that it is deemed as too risky to simply let Deutsche fail. Unfortunately Deutsche did already sell most their exposure of Greek bonds (etc) on to other holders (some Landesbanks, I think, but not sure whether I remember correctly).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As to what&#039;s happening in the cities of the UK, I think its just an expression of anger and frustration, comparable to the riots in the ghettos of Paris in 2005. Those guys simply found a vent to let go of the steam that has been building up, and sure when the government is looting, why shouldn&#039;t the people? And boom, now it has developed a dynamic of its own...&lt;br /&gt;Not that I like it or applaud it, but I think I may be able to understand it from a certain perspective (as I would imagine would the people here who follow your blog or read your book).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Golem, </p>
<p>once again a sharp analysis, thanks!</p>
<p>Deutsche Bank will not be left to fail if possible, Ackermann is a buddy too close to Merkel. It is the German Anglo in terms of government ties, and with its tentacles reaching out to every aspect of German finance I would guess that it is deemed as too risky to simply let Deutsche fail. Unfortunately Deutsche did already sell most their exposure of Greek bonds (etc) on to other holders (some Landesbanks, I think, but not sure whether I remember correctly).</p>
<p>As to what&#39;s happening in the cities of the UK, I think its just an expression of anger and frustration, comparable to the riots in the ghettos of Paris in 2005. Those guys simply found a vent to let go of the steam that has been building up, and sure when the government is looting, why shouldn&#39;t the people? And boom, now it has developed a dynamic of its own&#8230;<br />Not that I like it or applaud it, but I think I may be able to understand it from a certain perspective (as I would imagine would the people here who follow your blog or read your book).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Neil		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/08/european-banking-support-coming-apart/#comment-4594</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 23:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/08/european-banking-support-coming-apart/#comment-4594</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been following live coverage of the so-called riots in London (Birmingham is the only other place that seems to be affected), and I&#039;d be very cautious about suggesting a connection between them and the broader financial situation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;True, some of the areas affected are poor, but there&#039;s also been reports of youths with (non-looted) i-Phones and Blackberries, and cars driving up to take looted stuff away. This, imho, is different from what&#039;s happened in Greece, for example.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;ve been following live coverage of the so-called riots in London (Birmingham is the only other place that seems to be affected), and I&#39;d be very cautious about suggesting a connection between them and the broader financial situation.</p>
<p>True, some of the areas affected are poor, but there&#39;s also been reports of youths with (non-looted) i-Phones and Blackberries, and cars driving up to take looted stuff away. This, imho, is different from what&#39;s happened in Greece, for example.</p>
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