Hello willyvan,

and welcome.

Don’t get me wrong I am not saying Turkey is a wonderful place full of noble people or that their government is not duplicitous like any other. I am however saying they have been clever and are in the ascendant while Israel is sinking and fracturing internally. I am also saying I think a new regional politics centred on Turkey will be far better for all concerned, than the politics that has centred upon Israel.

I am aware of Taquija. I think here we call it realipolitik do we not – the notion that it is acceptable to lie to and cheat those who are not your friends.

Erdogan may be an Islamist but I don’t think all Turks are nor even the majority. The speach you report was mildly offensive. I remember it at the time. But is it more offensive thatn similar speaches western leaders give about how they will introduce Western ‘reforms’ and bring about a market based society of western values. The sort of equally unthinking and offensive cultural clod-ery that George Bush and his ilk go nin for?

I do hot think there is any chance at all that Islam will ever conquer European hearts and minds and the population curves do not support his contention that Muslims in Europe will take over by sheer numbers.

I share some of your dislike of Sharia law in its more fundamentalist and backward manifestations. Islamists can puff themseves up all they like but I think Sharia law is a non starter in the West.

I think it far more likely that some time fairly soon Islam will finally have its own Reformation and shed the dry skin of some of its more barbaric and simple minded tenets. The face of intollerant and intellectually stunted Islam we see, and which is in the ascendant in many places is not all there is or can be.

Turkey’s very success will, I think, make fundamentalist Islam less attractive to Turks and to many others throughout North Africa and the Middle East.

I think the key to the rise of withering of Fundamentalist Islam is how we in Europe treat Muslim countries. Continue to abet the impoverishment of their people and Radical Islam will have its appeal. Welcome a new Pax Turkana and work with it and we in the West will change Islam far more than Islam will change us.

In 1993, the Turkish premier was visiting Antwerpen in Belgium. To a crowd of 30.000 muslims living in Western Europe he said : We shall conquer europe without firing a shot, through the bellies of our women and their women. You will see the power of islam rising, as the veills in the european streets will increase. Brussels will be the first moslim capital in Europe.

—
islam knows Taquija : lying and cheating is acceptable to promote Islam.
Erdogan is an Islamist. He wants Sharia law to prevail in the whole world.
Sharia law is a 7th century law – it is the opposite of what he claims in his Taquila speech : Freedom and democracy and human rights must be a united slogan for the future of our people, ” Sharia law does NOT give the same rights to women as it does to men.

Tony hayward is there, god help them!

Ashamed to say I hadn’t heard a word about this. I’ve only had a quick look at the links but it looks very interesting indeed.

Thanks

http://www.aussieviewsnews.com/2011/09/05/gas-israel-lebanon/

That should get you started.