Comments on: They haven’t a clue

By: StevieFinn

StevieFinn — Mon, 19 Sep 2011 13:21:28 +0000

I have a facebook friend from Greece. I am witness to his increasing desperation & anger, as his hopes that things might improve are shattered. I have had nothing good to tell him, which is sad. His latest FB post sums it up, this doesn’t include the news he posted the other day of the Greek fella who set himself on fire outside a bank.

http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2011/09/19/scring-greeks-each-and-every-day/

@ Princess

It strikes me that the Greeks were not so much in denial, but hoping that they were undergoing some sort of temporary nightmare, that would pass & everything would return back to normal. It seems to me, that by the time they realise the truth it will be too late for them anyway. The MSM & governments disinformation, the real facts not being readily available & if you found them, who do you believe ?, & of course, how do you make a stand ?

I am also amazed how the UK & Irish public shows no interest in the real situation & if it is pointed out to them, they really seem to prefer to not know. How bad does it have to get before people start to cop on? Do we, the Spanish, & the Italians have to go all the way down the road like the Greeks or will enough people realise the danger in time & do something about it ? & how ? As in Greece the unions are a corrupt joke as are the politicians & we all have the same puppet MSM.

I fear for Greece & the rest of us, I am hoping for something big to go bang, big enough to knock people out of their apathy. I would much prefer none of this was happening, but I am sick of this slow bleeding to death. Maybe then there might be some resistance to this slow strangulation, widespread civil disobediance as Golem suggested, anything other than sitting watching our freedoms & childrens futures slipping slowly away into an abyss.

By: Dave

Dave — Mon, 19 Sep 2011 08:49:32 +0000

Margaret not wasted effort passing the word !

This blog started on feb 18th 2010 I see, and now at 45000 individual visitors . And each of those has a circle of friends family etc as well as linking back on the web.

New thread up here, a good one to circulate to those friends etc, and for you to post some more…

Richard in Norway it almost certainly was me providing the link at Guardian CiF to come here ! Occasionally my linking posts there would ‘disappear’, and they weren’t breaking the rules …

frog2

By: James

James — Mon, 19 Sep 2011 05:11:12 +0000

In reply to Margaret.

@Margaret, very sad to hear about your friends, I hope everything works out for them. I’m sure leaving Greece is not what they want to do, but perhaps if they’re well educated they might be able to obtain better wages abroad? It’s painful to see the impact of this misery-go-round.

There is a good blog on the bbc website by paul mason if anyone is interested. I’ve put the link below;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14934430

By: Margaret

Margaret — Mon, 19 Sep 2011 04:20:23 +0000

Dave
Unfortunately I am sure of the figure. That is why the couple (long-time colleagues ) were in despair and came to see us. People do NOT have the money to pay this extra tax and are at their wit’s end. I could go on and give a mountain of anecdotal evidence about the devastation being caused at the moment in Greece but no one, least of all the Germans (apart from our long-term scientific colleagues) is listening so I regard my feeble attempts to tell it a it is, as wasted effort.

By: richard in norway

richard in norway — Sun, 18 Sep 2011 22:25:20 +0000

In reply to Dave. Dave It's not funny I know but this is the sort of lecture we used to give them, I'm thinking of the Asian crisis of 97 which some have said was the work of Goldman and Morgan Stanley. There was no mercy for the Asian countries then

By: Dave

Dave — Sun, 18 Sep 2011 21:31:27 +0000

Richard 9.27 don't know if it's signed but the new Free Trade Deal with India does include something about movement of personnel... So Cameron is busily hastening the creative destruction instead of conducting a rearguard action to lessen the impact of globalisation. Margaret 9.20 most people earning 2200 would not have the ready cash to pay that one-off special tax of 1600 for the unemployed. Are you sure of the figure?.

By: richard in norway

richard in norway — Sun, 18 Sep 2011 20:39:23 +0000

In reply to Margaret. Its sad, what you wrote made me think about my family and I know that very soon that will happening to them, in fact it's already started. Sometimes watching this stuff unfolding is like entertainment, maybe it a way of dealing with it without getting overwhelmed, but then you read this and remember that its real and not a stupid Hollywood movie

By: richard in norway

richard in norway — Sun, 18 Sep 2011 20:27:17 +0000

The only bright spot is hear the former put upon nations saying, “it’s your mess you fix it” like China refusing to break it’s peg. And these comments I saw over at the telegraph had me in stitches.

This is the former finance minister of Singapore telling off the naughty western children

Mr Yeo said talk of global architecture is an attempt by Western countries to wriggle out of hard choices and “pass on their pain” to somebody else. The “Old Cathedral” of global affairs – built on American power – is crumbling and should not be rebuilt.

“China and India are going to grow whatever happens to the global system. The world will muddle along as it has for much of history,” he said.

Mr Yeo called for a bout of “creative destruction” in the West, warning of “very painful” times as American and European workers learn to compete toe-to-toe with educated Asians willing to put in longer hours for much lower pay. This may test political systems to breaking point.

It reminds me of The link that lautturi posted.

By: Margaret

Margaret — Sun, 18 Sep 2011 20:20:31 +0000

I am not greek, but married to a greek, presently living in a little village halfway up Psiloriti(for those who know Crete).
Yes, it is very very bad. We had two scientists to visit this afternoon(married, both working in public sector). This month they have to pay an extra 1600 euros (special tax for the unemployed, because they are both in work). They have already had cuts of 20% in salary. Average Greek salary for research scientist with PhD and several years postdoc WAS 1100 euros per month. Now it’s nearer 900. They pay 600 euros monthly rent. They have a young child aged 3 and childcare costs another 600 per month. They have a car paid (essential because their place of work is 8 kilometers from Heraklion and the bus service is not too reliable). Car loan (their only debt) costs another 400 per month.
They will not be able to pay the tax as there simply isn’t the money there.
Next week they will be told officially that their institute (very reputable with worldwide reputation) will have to lose 10% of its staff. Of course, at this point no one knows where the axe will fall.
Don’t forget, these are the lucky ones. They both have jobs, in the reviled public sector, they both publish in peer-reviewd journals, they have only one bank loan.
What are they to do?
What is Greece to do?
If Greece goes, do not let us be vindictive, which would harm everyone(and this is not actually the Greek style-just remember Patrick Leigh Fermour and those Cretan who died to save him and the British). What about simply legalising the production of cannabis? Crete does a really good product, I am told by those who know. That might inject a little fun and realism into this catastrophic situation.
Couldn’t make it any worse, anyway.

By: princesschipchops

princesschipchops — Sun, 18 Sep 2011 20:11:19 +0000

In reply to richard in norway.

That wouldn’t surprise me at all. It stinks. That’s essentially what Leap 2020 are saying. they say that the US and UK are in a dire mess with regards to their banks and so ”in such a context, everything was ripe for a media relaunch of the Greek crisis and its corollary, the end of the Euro!”

Of course I don’t agree with them on their rosy predictions for the eurozone or its own financial organisations but I do think they’re right with regards to the Greek situation. They are being made scapegoats and indeed some of the language being used about them by senior officials in other countries and organisations like the IMF is shocking. The suggestions that a military coup should be enacted to ensure these ‘reforms’ can go ahead one of the more chilling.

And as Golem says it won’t end with the ‘end’ of the Greek drama anyway. Italy will be next or somewhere else and all because – ultimately the banks are broke and cannot take ANY hits on their exposure to sovereign debt. We’re literally sacrificing whole nations to save a rotten banking system. You couldn’t make it up.