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	Comments on: Propaganda Wars: Our Version &#8211; Toxic bloom of lies	</title>
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	<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/</link>
	<description>Author of THE DEBT GENERATION</description>
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		<title>
		By: Golem XIV		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16223</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Golem XIV]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Mar 2012 09:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1176#comment-16223</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16214&quot;&gt;YesMaybe&lt;/a&gt;.

My pleasure. Hope you&#039;ll comment again sometime.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16214">YesMaybe</a>.</p>
<p>My pleasure. Hope you&#8217;ll comment again sometime.</p>
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		<title>
		By: YesMaybe		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16214</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[YesMaybe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Mar 2012 02:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1176#comment-16214</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Excellent post!  You really have a knack for getting to the heart of things and explaining them clearly all the way through.  Previously I&#039;d heard of risk-weighted assets plenty of times, but didn&#039;t know what that involved.  And in the news all the talk is of Basel III, so it was great to get the history of Basel I and II in order to put into perspective what we can expect from the banks&#039; plans to comply with Basel III.  Thanks a bunch!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post!  You really have a knack for getting to the heart of things and explaining them clearly all the way through.  Previously I&#8217;d heard of risk-weighted assets plenty of times, but didn&#8217;t know what that involved.  And in the news all the talk is of Basel III, so it was great to get the history of Basel I and II in order to put into perspective what we can expect from the banks&#8217; plans to comply with Basel III.  Thanks a bunch!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Enrico		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16169</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Enrico]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2012 21:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1176#comment-16169</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks to all of you. I devoured &quot;Debt: The First 5000 Years&quot; last Christmas.
Graeber&#039;s is a far reaching and overwhelming book that lent me new spectacles for looking at relationships of power, tying up in one bundle so many scattered facts.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to all of you. I devoured &#8220;Debt: The First 5000 Years&#8221; last Christmas.<br />
Graeber&#8217;s is a far reaching and overwhelming book that lent me new spectacles for looking at relationships of power, tying up in one bundle so many scattered facts.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Charles Wheeler		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16164</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Charles Wheeler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2012 20:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1176#comment-16164</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16159&quot;&gt;Jon&lt;/a&gt;.

Here is an interview with David Graeber on the subject of money as debt:
http://goo.gl/Fn0Wf]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16159">Jon</a>.</p>
<p>Here is an interview with David Graeber on the subject of money as debt:<br />
<a href="http://goo.gl/Fn0Wf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://goo.gl/Fn0Wf</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Jon		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16159</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1176#comment-16159</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Enrico

You should try the book by David Graber: &quot;The first 5000 years of debt&quot;.

It&#039;s an anthropological study that completely tears apart the basic assumptions in existing theories on money - from the myth of bartering as the starting point, to the primordial notion of debt. Must read for all of you in here...

By the way Golem; thanks a lot for you blogging.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Enrico</p>
<p>You should try the book by David Graber: &#8220;The first 5000 years of debt&#8221;.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s an anthropological study that completely tears apart the basic assumptions in existing theories on money &#8211; from the myth of bartering as the starting point, to the primordial notion of debt. Must read for all of you in here&#8230;</p>
<p>By the way Golem; thanks a lot for you blogging.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Golem XIV		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16158</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Golem XIV]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2012 15:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1176#comment-16158</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16136&quot;&gt;The Dork of Cork&lt;/a&gt;.

Wow what a great source doc!  Thank You.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16136">The Dork of Cork</a>.</p>
<p>Wow what a great source doc!  Thank You.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hawkeye		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16157</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hawkeye]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2012 15:07:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1176#comment-16157</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16148&quot;&gt;Enrico&lt;/a&gt;.

Enrico

I second the recommendation from Nell about the NEF book &quot;where does money come from&quot;.

I would say that all the sources you cite make reference to the source of money creation actually originating from private banks. This is applicable to the UK, US and Euros (in fact almost all Western / developed country monetary systems). The process of loan origination by private banks creates high powered money (bank deposits). Actual cash (narrow money) is the responsibility of the central bank / Treasury. So, any seeming difference between the different sources you cite, is probably because they put certain emphasis in different places, or disagree on what constitutes money in the first place (is it just cash, or Treasuries, or bank desposits, or credit derivatives too?).

Steve Keen is probably the best source on this subject, and is fast becoming a well respected academic on the subject:

http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2012/03/15/economics-without-a-blind-spot-on-debt/

http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/01/31/therovingcavaliersofcredit/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16148">Enrico</a>.</p>
<p>Enrico</p>
<p>I second the recommendation from Nell about the NEF book &#8220;where does money come from&#8221;.</p>
<p>I would say that all the sources you cite make reference to the source of money creation actually originating from private banks. This is applicable to the UK, US and Euros (in fact almost all Western / developed country monetary systems). The process of loan origination by private banks creates high powered money (bank deposits). Actual cash (narrow money) is the responsibility of the central bank / Treasury. So, any seeming difference between the different sources you cite, is probably because they put certain emphasis in different places, or disagree on what constitutes money in the first place (is it just cash, or Treasuries, or bank desposits, or credit derivatives too?).</p>
<p>Steve Keen is probably the best source on this subject, and is fast becoming a well respected academic on the subject:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2012/03/15/economics-without-a-blind-spot-on-debt/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2012/03/15/economics-without-a-blind-spot-on-debt/</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/01/31/therovingcavaliersofcredit/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/01/31/therovingcavaliersofcredit/</a></p>
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		By: StevieFinn		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16156</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StevieFinn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2012 15:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1176#comment-16156</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I sincerely hope this is valid, I dare not raise my hopes, but could justice be closing in on Geitner &#038; the rest of the robber barons ? the  &quot; too big to jail &quot; actually under threat as one of their top brass incredibly gets arrested, you know like they are actually just like the rest of us, accountable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFXIgvYldc0&#038;feature=player_detailpage]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I sincerely hope this is valid, I dare not raise my hopes, but could justice be closing in on Geitner &amp; the rest of the robber barons ? the  &#8221; too big to jail &#8221; actually under threat as one of their top brass incredibly gets arrested, you know like they are actually just like the rest of us, accountable.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFXIgvYldc0&#038;feature=player_detailpage" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFXIgvYldc0&#038;feature=player_detailpage</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Charles Wheeler		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16155</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Charles Wheeler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2012 15:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1176#comment-16155</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16148&quot;&gt;Enrico&lt;/a&gt;.

Could try this from Randall Wray of the Modern Money Theory school.

http://goo.gl/uATJk

You&#039;re not alone in finding it difficult to fathom - it&#039;s pretty obvious that many pundits, politicians and policy-makers also struggle, which is why most just ignore the whole issue.

MMT advocates will tell you that current policy prescriptions are based on beliefs that went out with the gold standard. The Austrian school will offer a still different analysis.

It&#039;s difficult to get your head around because so much is counter to the &#039;economy as household&#039; model most politicians parrot in lieu of a better understanding - or because it suits an ideological purpose.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16148">Enrico</a>.</p>
<p>Could try this from Randall Wray of the Modern Money Theory school.</p>
<p><a href="http://goo.gl/uATJk" rel="nofollow ugc">http://goo.gl/uATJk</a></p>
<p>You&#8217;re not alone in finding it difficult to fathom &#8211; it&#8217;s pretty obvious that many pundits, politicians and policy-makers also struggle, which is why most just ignore the whole issue.</p>
<p>MMT advocates will tell you that current policy prescriptions are based on beliefs that went out with the gold standard. The Austrian school will offer a still different analysis.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s difficult to get your head around because so much is counter to the &#8216;economy as household&#8217; model most politicians parrot in lieu of a better understanding &#8211; or because it suits an ideological purpose.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Charles Wheeler		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16154</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Charles Wheeler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2012 14:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1176#comment-16154</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16147&quot;&gt;John Souter&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;em&gt;&quot;Basically, a society immersed by greed makes greed a necessity of survival for and within that society.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;

Well put. As the checks and balances that preserve civil society - and markets - are swept away it becomes &#039;every man/woman for themselves&#039;. Thus, an ideology based on self-interest becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

We can see it at work in the tax system where government action and taxation has been relentlessly discredited to the point where people see it as an expropriation, rather than the necessary basis for the kind of collective action that is essential to the underpinning of capitalism by providing infrastructure, education and healthcare that &#039;free markets&#039; will/can never provide. As people see the 1% detach themselves from society by amassing tax free wealth, it becomes still more difficult to justify the system.

And yet, as society crumbles through atomisation, we all become worse off collectively and individually. As the cake shrinks, those at the top can only maintain their &#039;share&#039; by imposing austerity on the rest, strangling the goose that lays their golden eggs.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/03/propaganda-wars-our-version-toxic-bloom-of-lies/#comment-16147">John Souter</a>.</p>
<p><em>&#8220;Basically, a society immersed by greed makes greed a necessity of survival for and within that society.&#8221;</em></p>
<p>Well put. As the checks and balances that preserve civil society &#8211; and markets &#8211; are swept away it becomes &#8216;every man/woman for themselves&#8217;. Thus, an ideology based on self-interest becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.</p>
<p>We can see it at work in the tax system where government action and taxation has been relentlessly discredited to the point where people see it as an expropriation, rather than the necessary basis for the kind of collective action that is essential to the underpinning of capitalism by providing infrastructure, education and healthcare that &#8216;free markets&#8217; will/can never provide. As people see the 1% detach themselves from society by amassing tax free wealth, it becomes still more difficult to justify the system.</p>
<p>And yet, as society crumbles through atomisation, we all become worse off collectively and individually. As the cake shrinks, those at the top can only maintain their &#8216;share&#8217; by imposing austerity on the rest, strangling the goose that lays their golden eggs.</p>
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