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	Comments on: The Eurofiscal Corruption Contest &#8211; The Portuguese Entry	</title>
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	<description>Author of THE DEBT GENERATION</description>
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		<title>
		By: jose guerreiro		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/06/the-eurofiscal-corruption-contest-the-portuguese-entry/#comment-24179</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jose guerreiro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2012 18:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1416#comment-24179</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[All I read is people trying to defend the bloody fraudsters we have in these countries.Why do you think most of Angola`s people are stlll  so poor?Can`t you see what has been happening in Angola for at least  the last 20 years? 
Here in Portugal, we had a member of the government saying we did not have any corruption. It has come to the point where practically anyone  who has defrauded the public coffers, never get to the judicial courts, let alone to prison.


   Isabel dos Santos, the daughter of Angola’s president, is the biggest shareholder in Portuguese cable-television company Zon Multimedia (ZON) SGPS SA, and holds 19 percent of Portuguese lender Banco BPI SA, and in many other enterprises over here.

On the surface it’s an innocent sentence. Someone owns a chunk of a bank. Except that 1) the person is the daughter of the man who has been ‘President’ of Angola since 1979, during which time he and his family have amassed a business empire currently estimated to be worth at least €1.5 billion, while the people of Angola live in poverty despite the billions in revenue from Angola’s Oil and other mineral riches, and 2) the bank she owns 19% of  is about to get a €1.5 billion bail out from the Portuguese tax payer.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I read is people trying to defend the bloody fraudsters we have in these countries.Why do you think most of Angola`s people are stlll  so poor?Can`t you see what has been happening in Angola for at least  the last 20 years?<br />
Here in Portugal, we had a member of the government saying we did not have any corruption. It has come to the point where practically anyone  who has defrauded the public coffers, never get to the judicial courts, let alone to prison.</p>
<p>   Isabel dos Santos, the daughter of Angola’s president, is the biggest shareholder in Portuguese cable-television company Zon Multimedia (ZON) SGPS SA, and holds 19 percent of Portuguese lender Banco BPI SA, and in many other enterprises over here.</p>
<p>On the surface it’s an innocent sentence. Someone owns a chunk of a bank. Except that 1) the person is the daughter of the man who has been ‘President’ of Angola since 1979, during which time he and his family have amassed a business empire currently estimated to be worth at least €1.5 billion, while the people of Angola live in poverty despite the billions in revenue from Angola’s Oil and other mineral riches, and 2) the bank she owns 19% of  is about to get a €1.5 billion bail out from the Portuguese tax payer.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Patrick Donnelly		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/06/the-eurofiscal-corruption-contest-the-portuguese-entry/#comment-19709</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Patrick Donnelly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2012 12:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1416#comment-19709</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There are many upsides to the financial purge that most of your commenters have noticed, Golem and that is that such folk will find their wealth at massive risk. This stage, once we acknowledge that all funded pensions are likely to collapse, is mainly about TPTB and who loses their financial holdings. Those who have gotten out already are well placed to wipe out their erstwhile allies and rivals.

Once that happens, a miraculous solution to the lack of credit will be found and the entire scam will slowly start to wind up again.

The debris of the crash will also expose banks and they may part with some of their records, establishing what you allege!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are many upsides to the financial purge that most of your commenters have noticed, Golem and that is that such folk will find their wealth at massive risk. This stage, once we acknowledge that all funded pensions are likely to collapse, is mainly about TPTB and who loses their financial holdings. Those who have gotten out already are well placed to wipe out their erstwhile allies and rivals.</p>
<p>Once that happens, a miraculous solution to the lack of credit will be found and the entire scam will slowly start to wind up again.</p>
<p>The debris of the crash will also expose banks and they may part with some of their records, establishing what you allege!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Roger		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/06/the-eurofiscal-corruption-contest-the-portuguese-entry/#comment-19043</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1416#comment-19043</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Very Funny forom a french freind

http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp254/pippy59/LesIndignes.jpg]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very Funny forom a french freind</p>
<p><a href="http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp254/pippy59/LesIndignes.jpg" rel="nofollow ugc">http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp254/pippy59/LesIndignes.jpg</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Golem XIV		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/06/the-eurofiscal-corruption-contest-the-portuguese-entry/#comment-18913</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Golem XIV]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1416#comment-18913</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/06/the-eurofiscal-corruption-contest-the-portuguese-entry/#comment-18909&quot;&gt;Rita&lt;/a&gt;.

Hello Rita,

Thank you for commenting.

In answer to your question - what can ordinary people do?  I did write two things recently making a suggestion. You can read them by scrolling down the front page a little till you see two blogs one called &quot;The Way Forward&quot; and the other called &quot;The Next Steps&quot;.  

I and a number of people who come here regularly are quite serious about this.  Perhaps it might appeal to you. I hope so.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/06/the-eurofiscal-corruption-contest-the-portuguese-entry/#comment-18909">Rita</a>.</p>
<p>Hello Rita,</p>
<p>Thank you for commenting.</p>
<p>In answer to your question &#8211; what can ordinary people do?  I did write two things recently making a suggestion. You can read them by scrolling down the front page a little till you see two blogs one called &#8220;The Way Forward&#8221; and the other called &#8220;The Next Steps&#8221;.  </p>
<p>I and a number of people who come here regularly are quite serious about this.  Perhaps it might appeal to you. I hope so.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rita		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/06/the-eurofiscal-corruption-contest-the-portuguese-entry/#comment-18909</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rita]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1416#comment-18909</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is so true and sad that it really makes me cry out of hopelessness and despair over the situation. I am just glad I am no longer in Portugal so that my taxes are not being misused! I do wonder though, what can we, the people do? Because we all know the problem. But people in Portugal struggle to know what they can actually do to change the way things are, to prevent the government from stealing retirees private and hard earned money, from cutting the already small amount some older people who had nothing to save during the dictatorship, are entitled to, from increasing the taxes on young people who make 700€ a month...I could go on but you get the picture. So, in reality, what can the people do? Because voting is obviously not enough as they are all the same. Our options aren&#039;t really...So, More than deliberating on the problem over and over again, I think it&#039;s time to suggest practical solutions.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is so true and sad that it really makes me cry out of hopelessness and despair over the situation. I am just glad I am no longer in Portugal so that my taxes are not being misused! I do wonder though, what can we, the people do? Because we all know the problem. But people in Portugal struggle to know what they can actually do to change the way things are, to prevent the government from stealing retirees private and hard earned money, from cutting the already small amount some older people who had nothing to save during the dictatorship, are entitled to, from increasing the taxes on young people who make 700€ a month&#8230;I could go on but you get the picture. So, in reality, what can the people do? Because voting is obviously not enough as they are all the same. Our options aren&#8217;t really&#8230;So, More than deliberating on the problem over and over again, I think it&#8217;s time to suggest practical solutions.</p>
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		By: Offtopic?		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/06/the-eurofiscal-corruption-contest-the-portuguese-entry/#comment-18906</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Offtopic?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2012 01:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1416#comment-18906</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[International Treaty Negotiated In Secret – Hidden Even from Congressmen Who Oversee Treaties – Threatens to Destroy National Sovereignty
Posted on June 14, 2012 by WashingtonsBlog
Treaty Threatens Global Government … Run by Giant Corporations

The normally-reserved Yves Smith asks whether Obama should be impeached over it.

Democratic Senator Wyden – the head of the committee which is supposed to oversee it – is so furious about the lack of access that he has introduced legislation to force disclosure.

Republican House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa is so upset by it that he has leaked a document on his website to show what’s going on.

What is everyone so furious about?

An international treaty being negotiated in secret which would not only crack down on Internet privacy much more than SOPA or ACTA, but would actually destroy the sovereignty of the U.S. and all other signatories.

It is called the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP).

Wyden is the chairman of the trade committee in the Senate … the committee which is supposed to have jurisdiction over the TPP. Wyden is also on the Senate Intelligence Committee, and so he and his staff have high security clearances and are normally able to look at classified documents.

And yet Wyden and his staff have been denied access to the TPP’s text.


Watch this interview from today  - on democracynow.org - explaining why TPP is so  dangerous to America … and the rest of the world:

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>International Treaty Negotiated In Secret – Hidden Even from Congressmen Who Oversee Treaties – Threatens to Destroy National Sovereignty<br />
Posted on June 14, 2012 by WashingtonsBlog<br />
Treaty Threatens Global Government … Run by Giant Corporations</p>
<p>The normally-reserved Yves Smith asks whether Obama should be impeached over it.</p>
<p>Democratic Senator Wyden – the head of the committee which is supposed to oversee it – is so furious about the lack of access that he has introduced legislation to force disclosure.</p>
<p>Republican House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa is so upset by it that he has leaked a document on his website to show what’s going on.</p>
<p>What is everyone so furious about?</p>
<p>An international treaty being negotiated in secret which would not only crack down on Internet privacy much more than SOPA or ACTA, but would actually destroy the sovereignty of the U.S. and all other signatories.</p>
<p>It is called the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP).</p>
<p>Wyden is the chairman of the trade committee in the Senate … the committee which is supposed to have jurisdiction over the TPP. Wyden is also on the Senate Intelligence Committee, and so he and his staff have high security clearances and are normally able to look at classified documents.</p>
<p>And yet Wyden and his staff have been denied access to the TPP’s text.</p>
<p>Watch this interview from today  &#8211; on democracynow.org &#8211; explaining why TPP is so  dangerous to America … and the rest of the world:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonsblog.com/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.washingtonsblog.com/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: steviefinn		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/06/the-eurofiscal-corruption-contest-the-portuguese-entry/#comment-18905</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[steviefinn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1416#comment-18905</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/06/the-eurofiscal-corruption-contest-the-portuguese-entry/#comment-18896&quot;&gt;backwardsevolution&lt;/a&gt;.

Backwardsevolution

   Good stuff, makes a lot of sense especially in regards to Tspirus. Hopefully one good thing to eventually come out of this tragedy would be the breaking up of the old corrupt political guard. 

The most interesting part of the article below is a chart showing estimates of countries banking exposure to Greece. Of course these figures are probably showing only the tip of the iceberg, which in itself is possibly big enough to sink a huge supposedly unsinkable hulk. The whole thing strikes me as a bit like a mixture of poker &#038; dominoes played by mostly corrupt, greedy, hubristic people devoid of humanity, in which the pot always wins &#038; the onlookers are forced to cough up to cover the losses :

http://openeuropeblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/what-next-for-greece.html

Interesting chart showing the geographical share of the vote. It seems to me that Tspirus has most of it&#039;s support in urban areas, particularly in Athens, probably not a good recipe for quiet streets if a Troika business as usual coalition is formed :

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OzeS-6tqPLM/T984xwN0wVI/AAAAAAAAWc4/e6kZZkls2C8/s640/greekelectionfinal.PNG

Finally the ex advisor to Brian Lenihan gives some advise to Spain :

http://soberlook.com/2012/06/irelands-advice-for-spain.html

It would be quite funny if it wasn&#039;t so tragic.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/06/the-eurofiscal-corruption-contest-the-portuguese-entry/#comment-18896">backwardsevolution</a>.</p>
<p>Backwardsevolution</p>
<p>   Good stuff, makes a lot of sense especially in regards to Tspirus. Hopefully one good thing to eventually come out of this tragedy would be the breaking up of the old corrupt political guard. </p>
<p>The most interesting part of the article below is a chart showing estimates of countries banking exposure to Greece. Of course these figures are probably showing only the tip of the iceberg, which in itself is possibly big enough to sink a huge supposedly unsinkable hulk. The whole thing strikes me as a bit like a mixture of poker &amp; dominoes played by mostly corrupt, greedy, hubristic people devoid of humanity, in which the pot always wins &amp; the onlookers are forced to cough up to cover the losses :</p>
<p><a href="http://openeuropeblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/what-next-for-greece.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://openeuropeblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/what-next-for-greece.html</a></p>
<p>Interesting chart showing the geographical share of the vote. It seems to me that Tspirus has most of it&#8217;s support in urban areas, particularly in Athens, probably not a good recipe for quiet streets if a Troika business as usual coalition is formed :</p>
<p><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OzeS-6tqPLM/T984xwN0wVI/AAAAAAAAWc4/e6kZZkls2C8/s640/greekelectionfinal.PNG" rel="nofollow ugc">http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OzeS-6tqPLM/T984xwN0wVI/AAAAAAAAWc4/e6kZZkls2C8/s640/greekelectionfinal.PNG</a></p>
<p>Finally the ex advisor to Brian Lenihan gives some advise to Spain :</p>
<p><a href="http://soberlook.com/2012/06/irelands-advice-for-spain.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://soberlook.com/2012/06/irelands-advice-for-spain.html</a></p>
<p>It would be quite funny if it wasn&#8217;t so tragic.</p>
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		<title>
		By: bill40		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/06/the-eurofiscal-corruption-contest-the-portuguese-entry/#comment-18904</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bill40]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1416#comment-18904</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oh no! Golem has been revealed as a CIA agent and working for MI6. Why do all my heros have feet of clay? Personally I think Golem is really Bob Diamond  who works as an agent for Goldman Sachs.

Currently based in Tibet, a fully autonomous state I&#039;ll have you know, i am very limited to internet time, even the VNPs are affected. I do however have good access to Chinas main credit rating agency dadong, who seem way ahead of the west. 

The banks, all of them, in the following countries are either rated as junk or are unofficially rated even worse. Spain, Italy, France, RoI, Portugal, Malta, Latvia, Belgium, Greece, Hungary, Rumania, Poland and Bulgaria. Even many German, dutch and UK ones feature, this is just in Europe. 

For a living I specialise in deviancy statistics. Just for fun I calculate the likihood of going against wisdom and investing in banks. The sum I get is expressed as -0.95 as near to a negative correlation as statistics usually  get. 

China will not step in to rescue your euro horror entries. I should know I&#039;m one of the ones telling them so. Not something I choose to do but I have little choice. 

Cherish democracy we can win it back.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh no! Golem has been revealed as a CIA agent and working for MI6. Why do all my heros have feet of clay? Personally I think Golem is really Bob Diamond  who works as an agent for Goldman Sachs.</p>
<p>Currently based in Tibet, a fully autonomous state I&#8217;ll have you know, i am very limited to internet time, even the VNPs are affected. I do however have good access to Chinas main credit rating agency dadong, who seem way ahead of the west. </p>
<p>The banks, all of them, in the following countries are either rated as junk or are unofficially rated even worse. Spain, Italy, France, RoI, Portugal, Malta, Latvia, Belgium, Greece, Hungary, Rumania, Poland and Bulgaria. Even many German, dutch and UK ones feature, this is just in Europe. </p>
<p>For a living I specialise in deviancy statistics. Just for fun I calculate the likihood of going against wisdom and investing in banks. The sum I get is expressed as -0.95 as near to a negative correlation as statistics usually  get. </p>
<p>China will not step in to rescue your euro horror entries. I should know I&#8217;m one of the ones telling them so. Not something I choose to do but I have little choice. </p>
<p>Cherish democracy we can win it back.</p>
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		By: Golem XIV		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/06/the-eurofiscal-corruption-contest-the-portuguese-entry/#comment-18903</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Golem XIV]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:34:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1416#comment-18903</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/06/the-eurofiscal-corruption-contest-the-portuguese-entry/#comment-18902&quot;&gt;backwardsevolution&lt;/a&gt;.

backwardsevolution,

Thanks!  Funny what you suggest. Some time ago I tried to interest a backer in what I described to him as &#039;The Alternative G8&quot;.

The idea was, coinciding with a G8 meeting, to hold an Alternative G8. Exactly as you prospoed it. Use on-line technology to get 8 of the &#039;best&#039; or fiery non-mainstream commentators together on-line, live and together to speak, discuss and field questions. 

I suggfested a rather disparate group. They might well disagree in many ways but together they blow out of the water the idea that &#039;There is no alternative&#039;. Such a gathering, if properly moderated, would show that there are several alternatives to the mainstream mantra, taht the mainstream media have ignored.

Properly run I thought such an event would have an energy and urgency about it. It would show-case how many people, whatever their differences, are united in seeing the utter lunacy of the policies being forced upon us for the benefit of the very wealthy and powerful.

Like you I thought, and still do think, it could be an event which empowered people. Just to realize that there are alternatives that are considered and workable. That the real political spectrum is much wider than the moribund carcass we get to see on Television, and that there is a growing and very real &#039;other&#039; opposition]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/06/the-eurofiscal-corruption-contest-the-portuguese-entry/#comment-18902">backwardsevolution</a>.</p>
<p>backwardsevolution,</p>
<p>Thanks!  Funny what you suggest. Some time ago I tried to interest a backer in what I described to him as &#8216;The Alternative G8&#8243;.</p>
<p>The idea was, coinciding with a G8 meeting, to hold an Alternative G8. Exactly as you prospoed it. Use on-line technology to get 8 of the &#8216;best&#8217; or fiery non-mainstream commentators together on-line, live and together to speak, discuss and field questions. </p>
<p>I suggfested a rather disparate group. They might well disagree in many ways but together they blow out of the water the idea that &#8216;There is no alternative&#8217;. Such a gathering, if properly moderated, would show that there are several alternatives to the mainstream mantra, taht the mainstream media have ignored.</p>
<p>Properly run I thought such an event would have an energy and urgency about it. It would show-case how many people, whatever their differences, are united in seeing the utter lunacy of the policies being forced upon us for the benefit of the very wealthy and powerful.</p>
<p>Like you I thought, and still do think, it could be an event which empowered people. Just to realize that there are alternatives that are considered and workable. That the real political spectrum is much wider than the moribund carcass we get to see on Television, and that there is a growing and very real &#8216;other&#8217; opposition</p>
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		By: backwardsevolution		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/06/the-eurofiscal-corruption-contest-the-portuguese-entry/#comment-18902</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[backwardsevolution]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1416#comment-18902</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Golem - meant to tell you how brilliant your last post was (and the one before that), but before I could, here comes another great one.  They just keep coming!  Great investigative work!!!!!  Oh, what a tangled web we weave.....

This is actually a war we&#039;re in, but most don&#039;t know it.  These guys are fighting for their lives and we&#039;re all just standing back.  Of course, they&#039;ve made it so complicated that even the most intelligent have a hard time wrapping their minds around what they&#039;ve done.  And some of the people who could step up, speak out, aren&#039;t, because they are making money off of these guys.

The only way I see this correcting itself is if something calamitous happens (and it will all on its own eventually), OR by forming our own G20, getting together the smartest, most on-side and horrified onlookers to bring the people together.  One guy can&#039;t do it, or one blog.  But it has to be people like Karl Denninger, David, Tyler Durden, Bill Black, Charles Hugh Smith, the good people from the Automatic Earth, etc.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Golem &#8211; meant to tell you how brilliant your last post was (and the one before that), but before I could, here comes another great one.  They just keep coming!  Great investigative work!!!!!  Oh, what a tangled web we weave&#8230;..</p>
<p>This is actually a war we&#8217;re in, but most don&#8217;t know it.  These guys are fighting for their lives and we&#8217;re all just standing back.  Of course, they&#8217;ve made it so complicated that even the most intelligent have a hard time wrapping their minds around what they&#8217;ve done.  And some of the people who could step up, speak out, aren&#8217;t, because they are making money off of these guys.</p>
<p>The only way I see this correcting itself is if something calamitous happens (and it will all on its own eventually), OR by forming our own G20, getting together the smartest, most on-side and horrified onlookers to bring the people together.  One guy can&#8217;t do it, or one blog.  But it has to be people like Karl Denninger, David, Tyler Durden, Bill Black, Charles Hugh Smith, the good people from the Automatic Earth, etc.</p>
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