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	Comments on: The Soul	</title>
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	<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/02/the-soul/</link>
	<description>Author of THE DEBT GENERATION</description>
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		<title>
		By: Gemma		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/02/the-soul/#comment-25891</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gemma]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Mar 2013 08:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1986#comment-25891</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/02/the-soul/#comment-25890&quot;&gt;steviefinn&lt;/a&gt;.

Hi Stevie. There is a lot about art on my website - and like you there are artists who can evoke a real empathy. One such is Tom Thomson who was exhibited in Groningen last year - his work is truly stunning. The point of what he did was to force the viewer into engaging with the painting. Either that or - like most of his harsh academic critics, lambasted his crude style vehemently. 

You see the difference between an academic and your daughter is that your daughter felt the loss of that sheep. An academic would merely observe that the object was no longer visible. An academic might propose various theories as to why this occurred, few of them would concur with the facts - that is however what academics do and seem to manage just fine in spite of reality. Because your daughter is right and they are wrong. (The Rijksmuseum re-opens in May, for the Rembrandts).

When she is older, take your daughter to see Tom Thomson in Ottawa. You won&#039;t regret it. His paintings have a vividness that even now in my memory from last October run goosebumps up my spine. As with all good art, you can&#039;t photograph it properly. 

You say &quot;I once possessed as a child&quot; - now I have worked hard and have regained much of what I lost in between. The violets and the bee I posted on Facebook recently was one such experience of total absorbtion and enjoyment. Yet many people walk past such things - even tread on them. Because if you look carefully, a violet is a window into the truest of infinities. That flower is rather special. Because there is and never will be another quite like it. 

Never, ever, ever. 

Even those cutlets are unique - it is us that has assumed that it is the same. I doubt if one in a million purchasers wonders if that piece of meat will ever have another exactly like it. We have become inured to sameness, and this is the essential mistake in mathematics. It assumes you can count things, when the reality is that you can&#039;t. 

I wrote about infinities on my blog, how our ability to imagine number is actually very small. Most cannot imagine ten things in their head - let alone twenty or the amount in their bank account. It is this very lack of imagination that leads people to be able to count, imagine fantasies like Gödel&#039;s or Graham&#039;s number - worse that people like Russel and Whitehead take 250+ pages to arrive at 1+1=2. The reality you are trying to find is that there are never two things exactly the same. When you count you are always making an assumption, and it is this that Gödel exploited - neither Russel nor Whitehead came through that experience unharmed. They imagined their reasoning watertight - which in a very real way it was, for Gödel numbers are pretty big even in mathematical terms.

PS Does Douglass still need an editor? I can spare some time if he does. he can leave a comment on my blog if he wants to.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/02/the-soul/#comment-25890">steviefinn</a>.</p>
<p>Hi Stevie. There is a lot about art on my website &#8211; and like you there are artists who can evoke a real empathy. One such is Tom Thomson who was exhibited in Groningen last year &#8211; his work is truly stunning. The point of what he did was to force the viewer into engaging with the painting. Either that or &#8211; like most of his harsh academic critics, lambasted his crude style vehemently. </p>
<p>You see the difference between an academic and your daughter is that your daughter felt the loss of that sheep. An academic would merely observe that the object was no longer visible. An academic might propose various theories as to why this occurred, few of them would concur with the facts &#8211; that is however what academics do and seem to manage just fine in spite of reality. Because your daughter is right and they are wrong. (The Rijksmuseum re-opens in May, for the Rembrandts).</p>
<p>When she is older, take your daughter to see Tom Thomson in Ottawa. You won&#8217;t regret it. His paintings have a vividness that even now in my memory from last October run goosebumps up my spine. As with all good art, you can&#8217;t photograph it properly. </p>
<p>You say &#8220;I once possessed as a child&#8221; &#8211; now I have worked hard and have regained much of what I lost in between. The violets and the bee I posted on Facebook recently was one such experience of total absorbtion and enjoyment. Yet many people walk past such things &#8211; even tread on them. Because if you look carefully, a violet is a window into the truest of infinities. That flower is rather special. Because there is and never will be another quite like it. </p>
<p>Never, ever, ever. </p>
<p>Even those cutlets are unique &#8211; it is us that has assumed that it is the same. I doubt if one in a million purchasers wonders if that piece of meat will ever have another exactly like it. We have become inured to sameness, and this is the essential mistake in mathematics. It assumes you can count things, when the reality is that you can&#8217;t. </p>
<p>I wrote about infinities on my blog, how our ability to imagine number is actually very small. Most cannot imagine ten things in their head &#8211; let alone twenty or the amount in their bank account. It is this very lack of imagination that leads people to be able to count, imagine fantasies like Gödel&#8217;s or Graham&#8217;s number &#8211; worse that people like Russel and Whitehead take 250+ pages to arrive at 1+1=2. The reality you are trying to find is that there are never two things exactly the same. When you count you are always making an assumption, and it is this that Gödel exploited &#8211; neither Russel nor Whitehead came through that experience unharmed. They imagined their reasoning watertight &#8211; which in a very real way it was, for Gödel numbers are pretty big even in mathematical terms.</p>
<p>PS Does Douglass still need an editor? I can spare some time if he does. he can leave a comment on my blog if he wants to.</p>
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		<title>
		By: steviefinn		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/02/the-soul/#comment-25890</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[steviefinn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Mar 2013 00:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1986#comment-25890</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/02/the-soul/#comment-25889&quot;&gt;Gemma&lt;/a&gt;.

Gemma.

   Since writing about the incident with Sarah &#038; therefore haven given it more thought, I think that somehow I managed to tune in to what she was feeling, as was expressed so vividly by her childish words &#038; the expression on her face. Perhaps it was a deep empathy from that part of me that stores my own feeling of awe &#038; sense of wonder I once possessed as a child.

  For me the intensity of those few moments has never since been repeated, but I occasionally get a breath of it through those I love &#038; the arts, in particular music, some films, certain works of art &#038; the odd book. 

  You mention looking at something solely from the point of view of it&#039;s value to the observer as a piece of meat or a commodity, a thing whose worth is only calculated as a unit of currency. I would suggest that you have hit on one reason for the evil in this world, in as much as, in order to be efficient, this process tends to return more profit to those bereft of empathy or even sympathy.

  I think the Godlike state of the market for it&#039;s worshippers is the cumulation of this behaviour &#038; it&#039;s influence is increasingly putting a price on everything.  Traditional religions for all their faults at least attributed value to what separates us from cogs. Now status, power &#038; wealth seem to be the only measure that counts.

  As for infinity, I feel it holds a secret that we are not qualified to see, or at least I am not. After a long time of thought on the subject I worked my way to a precipice of which I only glimpsed the edge of, &#038; then knew out of fear that I could go no further - A mystery like the soul &#038; the cosmos, that our baby steps may never solve.

  We have to enforce a value on our humanity to those who would count us in cattle trucks if we are rated as of no value &#038; surplus to requirements.

  Here&#039;s one of my mysteries for you Gemma - Why should I feel such a powerful feeling of empathy engendered by a collection of two dimensional portraits for a man who died in 1669.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&#038;v=lgUCc7Yh8Hs]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/02/the-soul/#comment-25889">Gemma</a>.</p>
<p>Gemma.</p>
<p>   Since writing about the incident with Sarah &amp; therefore haven given it more thought, I think that somehow I managed to tune in to what she was feeling, as was expressed so vividly by her childish words &amp; the expression on her face. Perhaps it was a deep empathy from that part of me that stores my own feeling of awe &amp; sense of wonder I once possessed as a child.</p>
<p>  For me the intensity of those few moments has never since been repeated, but I occasionally get a breath of it through those I love &amp; the arts, in particular music, some films, certain works of art &amp; the odd book. </p>
<p>  You mention looking at something solely from the point of view of it&#8217;s value to the observer as a piece of meat or a commodity, a thing whose worth is only calculated as a unit of currency. I would suggest that you have hit on one reason for the evil in this world, in as much as, in order to be efficient, this process tends to return more profit to those bereft of empathy or even sympathy.</p>
<p>  I think the Godlike state of the market for it&#8217;s worshippers is the cumulation of this behaviour &amp; it&#8217;s influence is increasingly putting a price on everything.  Traditional religions for all their faults at least attributed value to what separates us from cogs. Now status, power &amp; wealth seem to be the only measure that counts.</p>
<p>  As for infinity, I feel it holds a secret that we are not qualified to see, or at least I am not. After a long time of thought on the subject I worked my way to a precipice of which I only glimpsed the edge of, &amp; then knew out of fear that I could go no further &#8211; A mystery like the soul &amp; the cosmos, that our baby steps may never solve.</p>
<p>  We have to enforce a value on our humanity to those who would count us in cattle trucks if we are rated as of no value &amp; surplus to requirements.</p>
<p>  Here&#8217;s one of my mysteries for you Gemma &#8211; Why should I feel such a powerful feeling of empathy engendered by a collection of two dimensional portraits for a man who died in 1669.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&#038;v=lgUCc7Yh8Hs" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&#038;v=lgUCc7Yh8Hs</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Gemma		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/02/the-soul/#comment-25889</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gemma]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Mar 2013 22:06:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1986#comment-25889</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/02/the-soul/#comment-25638&quot;&gt;StevieFinn&lt;/a&gt;.

Childish wonder! Ah, what a relief from all the plodding thoughts. What is it that a child can teach us about the world we live in? What was it about the loss of that sheep that upset your daughter so - and its finding that was so amazing? Few of us have that intensity of experience in our day and age - the question is why. 

I wrote a piece for my own blog a while ago looking at why an African tribe cannot count beyond three. The problem is subtle, it is in the context of this discussion, revealing. The issue for the African is that everything they see is unique, they cannot see five goats, because they do not associate such disparate animals as having any commonality. To the modern farmer, they have already been sold on the futures market and have little more meaning than chilled cutlets. 

Discovering that vitality is to discover your own ability to see the infinity that surrounds us.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/02/the-soul/#comment-25638">StevieFinn</a>.</p>
<p>Childish wonder! Ah, what a relief from all the plodding thoughts. What is it that a child can teach us about the world we live in? What was it about the loss of that sheep that upset your daughter so &#8211; and its finding that was so amazing? Few of us have that intensity of experience in our day and age &#8211; the question is why. </p>
<p>I wrote a piece for my own blog a while ago looking at why an African tribe cannot count beyond three. The problem is subtle, it is in the context of this discussion, revealing. The issue for the African is that everything they see is unique, they cannot see five goats, because they do not associate such disparate animals as having any commonality. To the modern farmer, they have already been sold on the futures market and have little more meaning than chilled cutlets. </p>
<p>Discovering that vitality is to discover your own ability to see the infinity that surrounds us.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gemma		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/02/the-soul/#comment-25888</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gemma]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Mar 2013 21:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1986#comment-25888</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sorry to be late for the party. I would like to contribute the following: 

Let us have a look at what consciousness is. In the most essential of terms, it is the point at which we are aware of our being alive. We have an awareness of having been alive since we have memories, and there is the likelyhood of more of the same in the future. Many of us spend much of our time imagining what the future will look like, daydreaming as it were. There are few of us who really live in the present. 

I want to ask everyone here to become more aware of the way in which we live. Are you comfortable when you go to work? A friend of mine went to work yesterday morning and since it was something he does every morning, had no memory of having actually driven there. All he knew was that he had arrived. Just how conscious do you need to be to drive??

As to illusions - anything that goes on inside your head can be broadly described as cognitive. There is no essential difference between imagining, thinking, memories and just about anything else that goes on up there. So how is it that we imagine, remember our memories and try to think out a problem we are faced with? What differentiates these essentially similar things? Why are the images of your memories different from your imaginings of the future? The only difference is your ability to imagine the future. You could imagine the smell of the dinner cooking were you prompted - would you do so voluntarily? It&#039;s much the same with thinking - you can think what you wish, if only you could. 

A science of the soul? That depends on what you think of as science. If you want proofs, forget it, for proofs you need evidence - and that is a trap in its own right. There can not be repeatable evidence for the soul. If you want a science of the soul, you need a science that is as fickle and is as vaporous as the soul itself. That doesn&#039;t mean that you can&#039;t have a science, it only means you need a form of thinking that is subtle enough to accept the issues that the very question of the soul provokes. 

One last thought: our brain weighs around three pounds, 1500g. So how is it that our sensation of our heads is that they weigh around an ounce? There is something going on here.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to be late for the party. I would like to contribute the following: </p>
<p>Let us have a look at what consciousness is. In the most essential of terms, it is the point at which we are aware of our being alive. We have an awareness of having been alive since we have memories, and there is the likelyhood of more of the same in the future. Many of us spend much of our time imagining what the future will look like, daydreaming as it were. There are few of us who really live in the present. </p>
<p>I want to ask everyone here to become more aware of the way in which we live. Are you comfortable when you go to work? A friend of mine went to work yesterday morning and since it was something he does every morning, had no memory of having actually driven there. All he knew was that he had arrived. Just how conscious do you need to be to drive??</p>
<p>As to illusions &#8211; anything that goes on inside your head can be broadly described as cognitive. There is no essential difference between imagining, thinking, memories and just about anything else that goes on up there. So how is it that we imagine, remember our memories and try to think out a problem we are faced with? What differentiates these essentially similar things? Why are the images of your memories different from your imaginings of the future? The only difference is your ability to imagine the future. You could imagine the smell of the dinner cooking were you prompted &#8211; would you do so voluntarily? It&#8217;s much the same with thinking &#8211; you can think what you wish, if only you could. </p>
<p>A science of the soul? That depends on what you think of as science. If you want proofs, forget it, for proofs you need evidence &#8211; and that is a trap in its own right. There can not be repeatable evidence for the soul. If you want a science of the soul, you need a science that is as fickle and is as vaporous as the soul itself. That doesn&#8217;t mean that you can&#8217;t have a science, it only means you need a form of thinking that is subtle enough to accept the issues that the very question of the soul provokes. </p>
<p>One last thought: our brain weighs around three pounds, 1500g. So how is it that our sensation of our heads is that they weigh around an ounce? There is something going on here.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Fugger		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/02/the-soul/#comment-25880</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fugger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Mar 2013 02:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1986#comment-25880</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The soul is impossible to discuss because we can only use words. The soul is a slippery thing. Trying to get a mental purchase on it is akin to wrestling gas. The soul resides in a twilight realm beyond all our contrived blather. You don&#039;t think about it, you experience it. That&#039;s why they named a type of music after it.

...or maybe not. Who knows?

Enjoyable discussion nonetheless. I&#039;m mainly with you on this. Liked your point about using imagery instead of words.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The soul is impossible to discuss because we can only use words. The soul is a slippery thing. Trying to get a mental purchase on it is akin to wrestling gas. The soul resides in a twilight realm beyond all our contrived blather. You don&#8217;t think about it, you experience it. That&#8217;s why they named a type of music after it.</p>
<p>&#8230;or maybe not. Who knows?</p>
<p>Enjoyable discussion nonetheless. I&#8217;m mainly with you on this. Liked your point about using imagery instead of words.</p>
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		<title>
		By: steviefinn		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/02/the-soul/#comment-25850</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[steviefinn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Mar 2013 23:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1986#comment-25850</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/02/the-soul/#comment-25719&quot;&gt;steviefinn&lt;/a&gt;.

I got permission to post this opportunity that might help someone out with a few readies, its from the site linked above :

&#039; I’m also looking for a partime blog master/manager who can keep up with blog development &#038; maybe edit/proof writing, possibly even promoting books (the blog abilities are the only firm requirement). Pass it on.&#039;

 &#039;Yes, blog development, mechanics, imagination, insight and general expertise is what’s needed. And if that could be in the form a person with a history in the Agnostic, freethought, humanist, atheist community so the possibilities of both thrusts could be wedded in one, that would be great.
I would expect to pay for that help. Other than the occasional special or creative projects, it’s probably only an hour here or there. Though I’d like to do some expansion of the blog, set the new book cover in when it’s ready, etc.&#039;

Quoted from US author Douglass Falknor who writes the blog.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/02/the-soul/#comment-25719">steviefinn</a>.</p>
<p>I got permission to post this opportunity that might help someone out with a few readies, its from the site linked above :</p>
<p>&#8216; I’m also looking for a partime blog master/manager who can keep up with blog development &amp; maybe edit/proof writing, possibly even promoting books (the blog abilities are the only firm requirement). Pass it on.&#8217;</p>
<p> &#8216;Yes, blog development, mechanics, imagination, insight and general expertise is what’s needed. And if that could be in the form a person with a history in the Agnostic, freethought, humanist, atheist community so the possibilities of both thrusts could be wedded in one, that would be great.<br />
I would expect to pay for that help. Other than the occasional special or creative projects, it’s probably only an hour here or there. Though I’d like to do some expansion of the blog, set the new book cover in when it’s ready, etc.&#8217;</p>
<p>Quoted from US author Douglass Falknor who writes the blog.</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Souter		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/02/the-soul/#comment-25720</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Souter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 20:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1986#comment-25720</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The soul is sanity and sanity brings contentment and contentment is just another word for saying a content is meant and as a result brings a sense of earned peace and achievement.

This applies to all levels work provided the drivers are vocational and standards are measured by excellence rather than elitism.

Unfortunately our world is run by price rather than value while its money-form rarely brings contentment and, even more frightening, by a combination of design, propaganda and the nurture of greed it&#039;s not meant to. Give a man £5 -£10 -£15 million and he struggles with two paranoias - the first is to add to it; or at least hold onto it, the second is  for him far more worrying, which is not to loose it.

No society can flourish in a generic sense of contentment if price rules and the psychopaths feed the tills of their paranoia. Which is where we are now; and where, if the present trend of the surviving financiers are allowed to sigh into their troughs and pat themselves on the back for having made it by fooling us once on the uptake, fooling us again on the shakedown, then leaving us in intensive care with no oxygen and no credit to buy any. It&#039;s then we will learn that quasi contentment is really only apathy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The soul is sanity and sanity brings contentment and contentment is just another word for saying a content is meant and as a result brings a sense of earned peace and achievement.</p>
<p>This applies to all levels work provided the drivers are vocational and standards are measured by excellence rather than elitism.</p>
<p>Unfortunately our world is run by price rather than value while its money-form rarely brings contentment and, even more frightening, by a combination of design, propaganda and the nurture of greed it&#8217;s not meant to. Give a man £5 -£10 -£15 million and he struggles with two paranoias &#8211; the first is to add to it; or at least hold onto it, the second is  for him far more worrying, which is not to loose it.</p>
<p>No society can flourish in a generic sense of contentment if price rules and the psychopaths feed the tills of their paranoia. Which is where we are now; and where, if the present trend of the surviving financiers are allowed to sigh into their troughs and pat themselves on the back for having made it by fooling us once on the uptake, fooling us again on the shakedown, then leaving us in intensive care with no oxygen and no credit to buy any. It&#8217;s then we will learn that quasi contentment is really only apathy.</p>
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		<title>
		By: steviefinn		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/02/the-soul/#comment-25719</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[steviefinn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 19:21:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1986#comment-25719</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I found this earlier today - sums it up for me :

The Universal Spiritual Quest
It seems for whatever reason that man has spiritual needs.  Greater needs for some, less for others.   Religions sprang up, rooted in myth and superstition because they met some of these spiritual needs and for a time, as well, some needs for community, law and a comprehensible world view.  Jean-Paul Sartre, I think in exasperation with this long inexplicable need, said that society has a God-shaped hole in it.  I think he could have extended that hole to being in humankind’s head and heart as well.
Rituals, tradition, codified beliefs and social and behavioral norms—along with ostracism as a punishment for failing to conform—all served to institutionalize religion in society.  Religion has often held a position of strength some times equal to, sometimes superior to, the governance of the group, tribe, or community.   Religion has done, and still does, a lot for, as well as to, mankind, but this thesis would be a tangent not germane to the present discussion.
Giving credit where it is due, religion has enabled its believers to achieve surprising accomplishments arising supposedly from inspiration attributable to something in the realm of the adherents’ spiritual beliefs. Even if the believer is factually wrong in every respect, they often seem buoyed up in spirit based upon their beliefs in the face of hardship or sorrow or even the daily world.
The challenge for the secular human spirit is to find and enjoy the spiritual effectiveness and fulfillment of the religious and their religion without any of the negative corollaries. (Being closed to new or different thinking, having to reject reason and accept beliefs on faith, etc.)
What would be the objective for such secular spiritual seekers?
To create an environment or a milieu in which one is “bathed” in his or her chosen icons or evokers of feeling, mood, thought, vision… all that one can incorporate or bring together that he or she sees as supportive or important to their spiritual identity.   Such items might be photos, posters, audio/video recordings, writings, or other objects that might help a person get “in state” for pursuing their spiritual identity—growth—fulfillment.  (I remember some of the things that did it for me.  The long limestone staircase in the woods at Glen Helen and how the sun looked and felt filtering through the verdant forest. But there was also Desiderata, the poem by Max Ehrmann.)
Freedom from dogma and preconceived notions is the beneficial offset when we are not locked into a particular religion.  (The response to the question of religion: “I’m spiritual, but not religious.) The opportunity for personal spiritual self-discovery is somewhat stifled in mainstream Christianity.  It’s as if the “word from our sponsor” (religion) is of overwhelming importance while the “TV program” (the content of our lives) is treated as if it’s insignificant.  (Granted that progressive Christianity has made great strides in this area.)
Still, you’re just not allowed to “color outside the lines” in most traditional religions. They might ask of us, “What would you hope to discover?”  Ourselves.  In explanation of the religions’ points of view, religions take a long time to grow, they have very deep roots.  In many cases, the strength of tradition allows the religions to retain their skeletal structure.  The question is, are the changes skin deep or just so much cosmetic makeup.
Possibly, man, without something like religion, is man confused.  Effective living may require that we have something, maybe anything, in the ‘little black box’ in the corner of our being where religion can often be found.  Religion may or may not be hard-wired into us, but it may have proved to be a valuable software program to us and our culture and community.
This doesn’t mean that some non-religious belief system can’t be substituted to hold that place, it can: Our wishes for ennobling the human spirit, love of humanity, the multiplicity of meanings we give to life. We can bring those to our spiritual locus, that private place of self within.
In this context, spiritual, for us, means whatever shines within us—that essence within us which responds to the greater human spirit and to the ennoblement of both.  And so, this is a secular spirit.  I call it “spiritual,” in spite of that baggage because it is that same “spot” in most of humanity where human evolution has chosen to “bless” us with a predisposition toward belief, religion, and spirituality [as sense, a feeling, a human goal].  So, I’m suggesting we mesh the same interlocking components that the religions do, a spiritually supportive milieu (people, thoughts, icons) and the quest of spiritual self-discovery (self-definition, hopes, dreams, inspiration).  The two aspects can interlock and feed each other.  What else is needed?   You may wish to seek those with whom to share.   Aren’t you already doing that?
It is part and parcel of the world’s religions that they are survivors.   They have evolved along with man, his culture, and civilization.  The religions are strong, they have the supportive strength of their adherents. They would not easily be dislodged or supplanted.  I strongly suggest than no such goal be adopted.
I would suggest, rather, that a future spire be cultivated to bud from common ground.  Short of proselytizing, we, too, should reach over the belief divide to our most similar counterparts and offer common cause in our hopes and dreams and good works projects, all the while remaining in touch with our own spiritual center so that we may not be knocked off-center by believers of something else.

http://secularholyman.com/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found this earlier today &#8211; sums it up for me :</p>
<p>The Universal Spiritual Quest<br />
It seems for whatever reason that man has spiritual needs.  Greater needs for some, less for others.   Religions sprang up, rooted in myth and superstition because they met some of these spiritual needs and for a time, as well, some needs for community, law and a comprehensible world view.  Jean-Paul Sartre, I think in exasperation with this long inexplicable need, said that society has a God-shaped hole in it.  I think he could have extended that hole to being in humankind’s head and heart as well.<br />
Rituals, tradition, codified beliefs and social and behavioral norms—along with ostracism as a punishment for failing to conform—all served to institutionalize religion in society.  Religion has often held a position of strength some times equal to, sometimes superior to, the governance of the group, tribe, or community.   Religion has done, and still does, a lot for, as well as to, mankind, but this thesis would be a tangent not germane to the present discussion.<br />
Giving credit where it is due, religion has enabled its believers to achieve surprising accomplishments arising supposedly from inspiration attributable to something in the realm of the adherents’ spiritual beliefs. Even if the believer is factually wrong in every respect, they often seem buoyed up in spirit based upon their beliefs in the face of hardship or sorrow or even the daily world.<br />
The challenge for the secular human spirit is to find and enjoy the spiritual effectiveness and fulfillment of the religious and their religion without any of the negative corollaries. (Being closed to new or different thinking, having to reject reason and accept beliefs on faith, etc.)<br />
What would be the objective for such secular spiritual seekers?<br />
To create an environment or a milieu in which one is “bathed” in his or her chosen icons or evokers of feeling, mood, thought, vision… all that one can incorporate or bring together that he or she sees as supportive or important to their spiritual identity.   Such items might be photos, posters, audio/video recordings, writings, or other objects that might help a person get “in state” for pursuing their spiritual identity—growth—fulfillment.  (I remember some of the things that did it for me.  The long limestone staircase in the woods at Glen Helen and how the sun looked and felt filtering through the verdant forest. But there was also Desiderata, the poem by Max Ehrmann.)<br />
Freedom from dogma and preconceived notions is the beneficial offset when we are not locked into a particular religion.  (The response to the question of religion: “I’m spiritual, but not religious.) The opportunity for personal spiritual self-discovery is somewhat stifled in mainstream Christianity.  It’s as if the “word from our sponsor” (religion) is of overwhelming importance while the “TV program” (the content of our lives) is treated as if it’s insignificant.  (Granted that progressive Christianity has made great strides in this area.)<br />
Still, you’re just not allowed to “color outside the lines” in most traditional religions. They might ask of us, “What would you hope to discover?”  Ourselves.  In explanation of the religions’ points of view, religions take a long time to grow, they have very deep roots.  In many cases, the strength of tradition allows the religions to retain their skeletal structure.  The question is, are the changes skin deep or just so much cosmetic makeup.<br />
Possibly, man, without something like religion, is man confused.  Effective living may require that we have something, maybe anything, in the ‘little black box’ in the corner of our being where religion can often be found.  Religion may or may not be hard-wired into us, but it may have proved to be a valuable software program to us and our culture and community.<br />
This doesn’t mean that some non-religious belief system can’t be substituted to hold that place, it can: Our wishes for ennobling the human spirit, love of humanity, the multiplicity of meanings we give to life. We can bring those to our spiritual locus, that private place of self within.<br />
In this context, spiritual, for us, means whatever shines within us—that essence within us which responds to the greater human spirit and to the ennoblement of both.  And so, this is a secular spirit.  I call it “spiritual,” in spite of that baggage because it is that same “spot” in most of humanity where human evolution has chosen to “bless” us with a predisposition toward belief, religion, and spirituality [as sense, a feeling, a human goal].  So, I’m suggesting we mesh the same interlocking components that the religions do, a spiritually supportive milieu (people, thoughts, icons) and the quest of spiritual self-discovery (self-definition, hopes, dreams, inspiration).  The two aspects can interlock and feed each other.  What else is needed?   You may wish to seek those with whom to share.   Aren’t you already doing that?<br />
It is part and parcel of the world’s religions that they are survivors.   They have evolved along with man, his culture, and civilization.  The religions are strong, they have the supportive strength of their adherents. They would not easily be dislodged or supplanted.  I strongly suggest than no such goal be adopted.<br />
I would suggest, rather, that a future spire be cultivated to bud from common ground.  Short of proselytizing, we, too, should reach over the belief divide to our most similar counterparts and offer common cause in our hopes and dreams and good works projects, all the while remaining in touch with our own spiritual center so that we may not be knocked off-center by believers of something else.</p>
<p><a href="http://secularholyman.com/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://secularholyman.com/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Phil (Mcr)		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/02/the-soul/#comment-25660</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Phil (Mcr)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 03:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1986#comment-25660</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve posted in Sovereignty - Betrayals and lies, Martin Wolf&#039;s article about fiat money supporting public spending not just private.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve posted in Sovereignty &#8211; Betrayals and lies, Martin Wolf&#8217;s article about fiat money supporting public spending not just private.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Redracam		</title>
		<link>https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/02/the-soul/#comment-25659</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Redracam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 02:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/?p=1986#comment-25659</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My intuition tells me that the soul is the subconscious representation of our bonding and relation to the group and that it may serve the purpose of ensuring the good / survival / betterment of the group; it promotes cooperation, helping and sharng. In this case the soul would be archaic, instinctive, predate the notion of self and would probably be shared by animals. If this is true the soul would be the motor for very simple and unadulterated feelings, thoughts and spontaneous behaviours : young children will intuitively understand equity and justice when sharing out birthday cake or sweets.  
I think our souls can be in good or poor health and that we may lose our souls. A healthy soul will bias our behaviour and may even whisper a hint and help us resolve to the group; a weak soul will be silent. Spirituality is listening to the soul. 
The self undermines the soul by justifying the putting of ones own wishes / needs before those of the group when these are in conflict. In this way - if care isn&#039;t taken - the soul can be justified out of existence and lost temporarily or forever. For example, the torturer&#039;s de facto rationalization of his atrocities as a means of quieting his conscience : &quot;These people are black, not part of my group, are terrorists ...&quot;. Sociopaths have damaged souls.
I would like to believe in a collective subconsciousness of souls where bonding is shared between people without any sensory communication but my personal experience has provided no evidence. Observations of different groups of monkeys living on distant islands, with no possible contact, where one group miraculously acquires new techniques and behaviours just after the other group has discovered them, give hope; people sensing a loved one has deceased without any reasonable cause for having that impression imply that some kind of extra-sensory exchange exists. 
For these reasons I firmly believe that neo-liberal economists, financiers and bankers have argued and explained their poison to themselves until their souls have withered away to nothingness and if God ever shows up they will be cast down into Tartarus and unbonded from the rest of humanity forever. 
OK now I&#039;m ranting ...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My intuition tells me that the soul is the subconscious representation of our bonding and relation to the group and that it may serve the purpose of ensuring the good / survival / betterment of the group; it promotes cooperation, helping and sharng. In this case the soul would be archaic, instinctive, predate the notion of self and would probably be shared by animals. If this is true the soul would be the motor for very simple and unadulterated feelings, thoughts and spontaneous behaviours : young children will intuitively understand equity and justice when sharing out birthday cake or sweets.<br />
I think our souls can be in good or poor health and that we may lose our souls. A healthy soul will bias our behaviour and may even whisper a hint and help us resolve to the group; a weak soul will be silent. Spirituality is listening to the soul.<br />
The self undermines the soul by justifying the putting of ones own wishes / needs before those of the group when these are in conflict. In this way &#8211; if care isn&#8217;t taken &#8211; the soul can be justified out of existence and lost temporarily or forever. For example, the torturer&#8217;s de facto rationalization of his atrocities as a means of quieting his conscience : &#8220;These people are black, not part of my group, are terrorists &#8230;&#8221;. Sociopaths have damaged souls.<br />
I would like to believe in a collective subconsciousness of souls where bonding is shared between people without any sensory communication but my personal experience has provided no evidence. Observations of different groups of monkeys living on distant islands, with no possible contact, where one group miraculously acquires new techniques and behaviours just after the other group has discovered them, give hope; people sensing a loved one has deceased without any reasonable cause for having that impression imply that some kind of extra-sensory exchange exists.<br />
For these reasons I firmly believe that neo-liberal economists, financiers and bankers have argued and explained their poison to themselves until their souls have withered away to nothingness and if God ever shows up they will be cast down into Tartarus and unbonded from the rest of humanity forever.<br />
OK now I&#8217;m ranting &#8230;</p>
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