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How to destroy the web of Debt

Here’s a question for you. Why have we heard nothing in the media or parliament about A People’s or a Sovereign Debt Jubilee? Is it because a People’s Debt Jubilee is simply a nice but unworkable fantasy dreamt up by crackpot bloggers like me?

This is what I have been wondering. And then in response to the Jubilee article, a regular contributor to this blog, Hawkeye, wrote to me and suggested I take a look at “The Great EU Debt Write Off”.

The web site contains details of a ‘proof of concept’ study of the Jubilee idea done by Professor Anthony  Evans and his colleagues at The ESCP Europe Business School. The study used up to date figures from the IMF and the Bank of International Settlement (BIS) to see what would happen if Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain, Britain, France, and Germany simply cross cancelled all the foreign debt they owed each other – a Sovereign debt jubilee.

The web of mutually destroying debt they studied looks something like this. The image is from a New York Times article called Europe’s Web of Debt. (The original article has a larger version)















Professor Evans said what he and his colleagues found “was astounding”.

  • The countries can reduce their total debt by 64% through cross cancellation of interlinked debt, taking total debt from 40.47% of GDP to 14.58%
  • Six countries – Ireland, Italy, Spain, Britain, France and Germany – can write off more than 50% of their outstanding debt
  • Ireland can reduce its debt from almost 130% of GDP to under 20% of GDP
  • France can virtually eliminate its debt – reducing it to just 0.06% of GDP

Among the ‘debtor’ nations a Debt Jubilee means Ireland reduces its debt load to from 130% of GDP to under 20%! That would virtually wipe out the crippling cuts being forced upon the Irish. While even among the ‘Creditor’ nations France benefits by nearly eliminating its debt. So the French people too would benefit. Which does beg the question – who is benefiting by enforcing all the debts? I’ll give you one guess.

Of course there can always be a devil lurking in the detail ready to spoil a happy ending, so I called Professor Evans and asked him about his methods and their limitations.

First thing he pointed out is that by ‘All Foreign Debt” he included foreign debts held by Private banks. But as he also said, considering that in many countries the Tax Payer owns large chunks of the Private banks in question and so the line between truly sovereign and private bank debt is already blurred and sadly we ‘own’ both.

Professor Evans said the main limitation they had was not being able to determine the duration or rates of the different bonds for different countries. So he was cancelling debts which although of the same capital amount would have been worth different amounts because of different interest rates and durations. Understandably this makes him wary of making too much of his results. However he did agree that on such large gross amounts, such interest rates and duration differences could be considered marginal. In the grand scheme of the massive debt reductions achieved the differences of rate and duration could be justifiably seen as a small cost to bear for the over all gain.

So there are grounds for criticizing his findings. BUT the criticisms are not so large that they derail the force of the findings.  The simple fact of the matter is that the PEOPLE of all our nations would be immensely better off. They would not be facing crippling austerity cuts, nor be being forced into selling their National heritage and wealth at Fire Sale prices to the very banks who are the cause of the debt crisis, and who will profit from the fire sales.

Which brings us back to the reason there has been no discussion at all of a Debt Jubilee. Keeping the debts is going to profit the banks and their bond holders. Not only that, but making sure there is no discussion of mutual debt cancellation, and thereby keeping sovereign debt levels as high as possible,   gives those on the political Right, the perfect crowbar they have wished for but never had, for forcing through a political agenda of privatizing and destroying the social fabric of welfare. An agenda for which they never quite got a mandate through the ballot box.

That is why the debts are being maintained and why there has been no discussion of any alternative.  Our politicians are ‘protecting’ the debts and those whose will profit from their payment over and above the welfare of the people they are supposed to serve.

The bankers don’t want any discussion of mutual debt cross cancellation because it would force a necessary deleveraging. The bankers do not want deleveraging because leverage is the secret of how the bankers make their profits and without it they wouldn’t look nearly so smart. The reason debt cancellation would force deleveraging is because much of the debt which would be cancelled is currently being held on bank books as an ‘asset’ serving to underpin yet more loans and debt. So start cancelling debt and the bankers pyramid of leveraged debt begins to crumble. The fact that it has to crumble if we are to recover without being crippled with trying to pay unpayable debts never gets a mention in banker-world.

A second reason bankers don’t like cancelling debt is that what would quickly get revealed is which banks are the walking dead kept alive by transfusions from us. At the moment they are all hiding each others debts.

Think about it – they all want the debts they owe each other to be paid in full – but since they can’t afford to pay them, they have got our politicians to make US pay all the debts they owe to each other, for them.

I don’t think our government’s have any interest in protecting us. They may say they do, and may make noises about ‘necessary measures’ but they seem mind-blind to any alternatives to what the bankers whisper in their ears. So here are a few ideas the bankers won’t like AT ALL.

As a start let us say that we will only consider paying debts which we can see. What I mean by that is the debts we are expected to pay must be transparently clear to us. They must be in an auditable form not held in mystery SIV’s in off-shore in tax havens. They must be held on balance sheet, not off it and on shore where we can inspect and audit them.

These are perfectly reasonable and entirely enforceable requests. We, the public simply want to be sure that what  we are being asked to pay, is in a place and form such that we can verify for ourselves that the debts are legal, above board and ours to pay.

If the bond holders have nothing to hide then they have nothing to fear. Any bond holder who refused and any debt which was kept off-shore and un-auditable would not be payed. It would be not even be considered for counting against other debt it would simply be zeroed. Simple, fair, clear, transparent and legal.

First thing this would do is destroy tax evasion and avoidance. Every nation would get a colossal windfall of tax THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN PAID IN THE FIRST PLACE.  That would help the austerity a bit.

Second there has been so much fraud, so much of it now clearly known and documented, that only a cretin would pay ‘debts’ on faith. Show me the paper or go away.

It is a fact that the vast bulk of the global stock pile of wealth and particularly debt backed ‘wealth’ is held off-shore in tax havens and Banking secrecy jurisdictions. Why? Why should we pay debts to people who won’t pay their taxes?


76 Responses to How to destroy the web of Debt

  1. mikehall May 27, 2011 at 12:05 am #

    Astounding indeed!

    What an incredible scam being pulled by banksters.

    I've just watched Curtis' 'All Watched Over By Machines of Loving Grace'.

    Essentially the story of the ideological zealotry of a frankly insane woman – Ayn Rand – was adopted and elevated to the most powerful political agenda. That ideology is brutally simple – selfishness & greed shall be the whole of the law (to borrow a bit from an earlier asshole – one A Crowley). But it was absolutely perfect cover for what became effectively a global, but secret coup on behalf of the most powerful banking elites, Goldman Sachs & others. All pretty much as rotten as each other.

    We see the devasting results of two noxious & symbiotic creatures.

    Absolute rule by banking interests & and the most poisonous ideology of all for human life, or indeed any life.

    Lets do our best to get the truth out there.

  2. guidoromero May 27, 2011 at 3:43 am #

    Good post. I will only take issue with your jabs to the political "right". Personally I am neither right nor left and there is abundant evidence to show that both have just ridden the gravy train since the dawn of "democracy" post WWII.

    My other observation is the following:

    "Think about it – they all want the debts they owe each other to be paid in full – but since they can't afford to pay them, they have got our politicians to make US pay all the debts they owe to each other, for them."

    The politicians did not "make" the US government pay anything. The US$ being the global reserve currency AND due to the dynamic inherent in the Floating Exchange Rates mechanism, the US must prop the system. Following the abrogation of Bretton Woods, Western currencies effectively became Dollarized. The currency of any country that recognizes the US$ as reserve currency is de facto dollarized.

    The US$ is the ultimate form of DBFM and, as you by now know, DBFM is predicated on inflation. Thus expanding and supporting the web of debt globally is an absolutely vital necessity for the US$. Ergo it is vital for the Fed to prop up the credit markets of all sovereigns that recognize the US$ as reserve currency AND it is a vital necessity for the Fed to expand the debt pyramid and support the velocity of circulation of the currency. Hence the UN, the IMF, the World Bank and, of course, the military amongst some of the most effective inflation tools.

    • wha June 12, 2014 at 1:26 pm #

      ‘US’, not ‘U.S’
      capitalized ‘us’

  3. Golem XIV - Thoughts May 27, 2011 at 8:14 am #

    Morning Guido,

    On form as usual. I take your point about Left and RIght. In practice they have become almost identicle.

    As for the US and the position of the dollar. Agreed again. But I do think it is worth distinguishinig the needs of the US monetary system which serves the top 1% and which most other Americans are unaware of, and the burden of poverty which many in America are forced to accept.

    There is a tendancy which I am guilty of, of always lumping all Americans in 'America'. I do it and I should know better.

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  4. guidoromero May 27, 2011 at 8:43 am #

    Not sure I follow your reply.

    My point is that European politicians did not "force" the Fed to monetize our debt.

    The Fed monetizes our debt because the Floating Exchange Rates mechanism ensures that the owner of the reserve currency MUST monetize the debt of all sovereigns that recognize it as reserve currency.

    Thus it is not a matter of choice as much as it is a matter of policy… at least since we abrogated Bretton Woods… but even prior to that, with the Marshal Plan for example… which, incidentally, lead straight to the abrogation of Bretton Woods I might add….

    … if that makes sense…

  5. Golem XIV - Thoughts May 27, 2011 at 8:57 am #

    It does.

  6. grjack May 27, 2011 at 10:14 am #

    But netting out the notional assumes that everyone is solvent. And because of the mark-to-model bookkeeping , nobody can establish if the counterparty is solvent. If everyone's debt and credit depends on everyone else, then if one node in this network goes bust there is a systemic risk that they all go bust. Until all debt is marked to market, we can't do anything about the debt. There will be no recovery until market disclosure in enforced and that won't happen because the debtors are probably already insolvent.

  7. Golem XIV - Thoughts May 27, 2011 at 10:20 am #


    Absolutely. So one country could force the issue. Which is why 'debtor' nations actualluy hold the whip hand if only they had the balls to use them. Just the threat would be enough to bring it down.

    We have systemic insolvency and systemic cowardice.

  8. Crinkly & Ragged Arsed Philosophers May 27, 2011 at 10:23 am #

    The problem with associating the present debacle with Bretton Woods and the purposes of reserve currency is that it's tinkering with a tune played for the benefit of the orchestra players not for the benefit of the audience.

    Now that's probably a weak metaphor but it underlines the fact that if something is as rotten as the monetary game is it needs to be removed root trunk and branch.

    In any 'sensible' relationship; whether between individuals, communities, nations, continents or world the jubilee approach would be adopted followed by a strictly controlled fiat currency based on the true asset and trading wealth of each nation.

    Sadly, for such a radical change to take place it would need confidence and commitment to be effective. Not so much on the part of the abusers – they already know all the tricks – but on the abused, who are paying the price for their governments to maintain their own power-base.

    In effect a sham democracy as a mould for slavery.

  9. Golem XIV - Thoughts May 27, 2011 at 10:31 am #


    Your last sentence says it for me.

  10. The MacPuddock. May 27, 2011 at 1:01 pm #

    I am trying to get my head around this idea.
    so debts and credits are transferred or placed alongside one another in order to 'cancel' them out, but surely all that is happeniong is that the debt (or credit is transferred by agreement within a country's jurisdiction.
    So maybe that is an advantage and may make the debt more readily controlled but it does not eliminate the debt or credit.

  11. wulfhound May 27, 2011 at 1:05 pm #

    Something I've maybe misunderstood here – hasn't all of this sovereign debt already been packaged up and re-sold by the banks? To insurance policies, pension funds and the like? The problem isn't that the nations owe one another money (were that the case, a High Street chartered accountant could balance the books), or even that they owe the banks; rather, the nations owe the bondholders (which, afaik, are for the most part, pension funds, endowments, insurance and other long term personal or quasi-personal investments).

    You can argue that those pension fund holders will end up paying much of that money back to their state anyway (either due to worsened terms on their pensions, higher retirement ages, increased tax takes etc.), but you can hardly punish them for the banks' or the PIIGS' financial mismanagement.

    TBH, I think a lot of people on the Left misidentify the problem with the Banksters. Yes, they are one of the main parties responsible for this mess. Yes, many of them grew personally rich during the boom years and it's plain immoral for them to get off scot-free while ordinary people suffer. But they haven't "run off with the money" in the sense most understand it.. the money was never there in the first place. The millions that individual bankers creamed off the top are an insignificant nothing, a drop in the ocean compared to the national debts of countries who spent all that funny-money the boom generated. That doesn't mean that it's right for the banksters to keep it, but it does mean that even if Governments were to confiscate it, we'd still be in a heck of a hole.

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  12. Golem XIV - Thoughts May 27, 2011 at 1:15 pm #

    The MacPuddock,

    I think it's more than that. But the important word here is 'think' please always remember I am not a financial expert. I am an outsider who reads and thinks about what he's read, that's all. So it is quite possible I have not understood or have made more of something trivial. I don't think so. But I don't know so.

    If we both owe each other a tenner with interest, we are both working to earn teh tenner, and teh interest and neither of us has ten quid to spend on anything else so long as our debt is outstanding. If we mutually cancell our debt to each other, neither of us has to find ten quid, nor the interest and both of us have ten pounds to spend repairing the roof.

    At the moment international finance is strewn with huge festring piles of debt. And people's labour is being diverted to shovelling the stuff away.

    I am NOT saying there would be no losses. There would be. But the benefits would outway the losses.

    Those who are dead set against any debt default, or any clearing of bad debts, then nothing in this idea or the idea of a debt jubilee makes any sense at all.

    But if you believe, as I do, that the debts must be cleared from the system, then this is a good and controlled way of thinking about it.

    Many people think such defalut would blast away the very value of money. I think they are absolutely wrong on this. It is the very pressence of a vast debt which is imperriling the confidence in money.

    Clear the debts and we will have far less volatility, will not need such massive cuts, will not find country after country being pillaged and will tame the banks and could reduce the damage being done by tax-evasion and banking secrecy in the off-shore world.

    • desmond April 30, 2015 at 12:50 pm #

      the debtors become slaves and slave masters are not in a hurry to free them. far from an agreed mutual cancellation of debt far better, surely, to repudiate, renege and refuse to acknowledge debt as it is a cancer and a plague…

  13. Bryan May 27, 2011 at 2:17 pm #

    Here is a good comment on Reddit by quantumcoffeemug:

    Sorry, this is a totally ridiculous proposal. First of all, the it's not really these five governments owing each other money. Most of that debt is held by private individuals and corporations; the arrows just indicate where those people and companies reside. It's not so simple as A owes B $1 and B owes A $1.

    Secondly, people buy government bonds because they are considered safe investments. If all of these countries just decided that all their debts were void, then investors who owned that debt would lose lots and lots of money. While we may not shed many tears for hedge funds and billionaires holding onto those bonds, if all of those investors lose in a big way due to this putative debt cancellation, people will be very loath to buy bonds from any of these governments for a very, very long time. That will make borrowing money a lot more expensive for them, deepening their budget crises.

    Nice try, but this "solution" clearly wasn't thought through very far.

  14. forensicstatistician May 27, 2011 at 2:50 pm #


    Firstly, you state "people will be very loath to buy bonds from any of these governments for a very, very long time."

    Where is the evidence for you saying that Gvts can't borrow in future? Iceland recently defaulted, but isn't having problems. Agentina defaulted in the early 2000s, again no major trauma for their sovereign borrowing.

    You appear to have swallowed the scare mongering tactic. The true consequence is that wealthy holders of debt never get their fingers burned, whereas the (enforced) borrower (e.g. tax payer) is compelled to pay-up.

    Seondly, you are right to state that the debt holding is actually among individuals. But this is at the heart of the problem. See the Post "Who are the bond holders we are bailing out". The wealthy demand repayment, and the average man in the street has to pay up. See also Monday's "All watched over by machines of loving grace" on the BBC iPlayer, and you'll understand the strategy; IMF bails out wealthy bond holders, enacts capital market liberation, wealthy pull money out, native tax-payer left with bill.

    A debt jubilee is the last thing the uber-wealthy want to see, as it will undermine their parasitic wealth extracting abilities.

    As for calling this suggestion naive, well all I can say is "the mote and the beam".

  15. guidoromero May 27, 2011 at 3:18 pm #


    "But they haven't "run off with the money" in the sense most understand it.. the money was never there in the first place. …"

    They don't need to run off with the money.

    Debt Based Fiat Money means that there is an entity that creates the currency at no material, labor or temporal input cost. This entity stands apart from the rest of society because it can create something arbitrary and at zero cost and society is forced, under penalty of incarceration, not only to make use of it but to pay it back plus more.

    Arithmetically speaking, the exchange value of DBFM diminishes at each passage from the creator of the currency, to the treasury, to the Primary Dealers, to the commercial banks till it finally reaches the pockets of individuals. This is because each entity will charge interest at each stage of the transfer.

    Thus, the creator of the currency and the Primary Dealers are the entities that stand to earn most as they earn first, third and last in the iteration of each unit of currency.

    But, although the reward may indeed be monetary during the initial inflationary cycle, the real reward is earned during the inevitable deflationary bust that must follow. This is because throughout the inflationary cycle the rewards are monetary. But during the subsequent deflationary bust, the reward takes the form of all the collateral that had been pledged against debt during the previous inflationary cycle.

  16. cynicalHighlander May 27, 2011 at 3:45 pm #

    Michael Hudson: Breakup of the euro? Is Iceland’s rejection of financial bullying a model for Greece and Ireland?

    I suppose that all that really is needed is for people to understand just what dynamics are at work that make these attempts to pay in vain. Creditors know that the game is up. All they can do is take as much as they can, as long as they can, pay themselves bonuses that are “free” from recapture by public prosecutors, and run to their offshore banking centers.

  17. richard in norway May 27, 2011 at 4:27 pm #

    Nuke the caymans, no seriously

    Or introduce a new currency and exchange it one for one with the old currency but only if it is held in domestic accounts or in real countries

  18. richard in norway May 27, 2011 at 4:29 pm #

    Sometimes I get fed up with being reasonable

  19. The MacPuddock. May 27, 2011 at 4:41 pm #

    Hi,thanks for the reply.
    as I said I struggle to get my head around this idea.
    Of course I think there may be some advantage to cancelling out debt. I think it would be good in circumstances where there is a different currency especially as it would save costs. Also if debts are transferred, consolidated and simplified in some way within a single country the government can then 'manage' the problem more effectively. provided they have the appropriate legislation.

    But in the Eurozone it might not achieve much. I think this may be the problem with such a diverse range of economies in the eurozone.

    It may be possible to find particular institutions that can do a relatively simple mutual transfer or cancellation of broadly equivalent material, but most cases will require some kind of transfer to another entity within a country and the formulation of a new borrower-lender relationship and I suspect that within the country there will be no credible way of lining up the creditors and debtors-as a borrowing institution will not necessarily be compatible with lending institution's conditions.

    If a British pension fund holds Greek bonds worth 1 million euro they may choose to exchange these for an equivalent value of income delivering British bonds but I imagine there would be a great number of bean counters needed to try to achieve some kind of advantage in the deal. (inevitable when you are dealing with 'business'-they only operate for advantage/profit. That would potentially create losers, and that would possibly make things worse. For this idea to work they'd surely have to take account of many different factors and 'equivalence' would be difficult to achieve. I fear the work involved might also make it impractical, but I have no experience of these matters to be honest.

  20. jambarama May 27, 2011 at 4:52 pm #

    Among the most naive ideas I've come across yet. Here is a good discussion as to why:


  21. Crinkly & Ragged Arsed Philosophers May 27, 2011 at 5:03 pm #

    Those that argue for the present model of monetary dealings are turkey's arguing for a better presentation of Christmas and for the experience to be more pleasant.

    Individual will take the hit? Very few and those who do will be the ones who made a lot of fat off the game they sponsored.

    Corporations will take the hit? Only Financial Corporations, productive corporations generally don't have enough fat to heavily invest in bonds.

    Pension Funds – They live off the interest and dividends which would continue – beside' even with he past decade of free markets they haven't performed well.

    Finally, it's not so many yesterday's ago since we used to have monthly trade figures -so much exports – less imports then a figure added for something called invisible earnings This at the time was the input from the financial markets.

    Then the world went surreal and the invisible market accelerated to the point where it could no longer be observed or controlled and the productive market became risible to the point of matching the invisible in its invisibility – this is the fairytale some want to hold on to?

    Nah; sorry not my type of Xmas,

  22. Golem XIV - Thoughts May 27, 2011 at 6:25 pm #


    your securitization point is a good one. It is precisely why I made the suggestion of declaring that no debt held off-shore or off-balance sheet would be honured.

    The point is we dpn't know who holds teh debts. They might be held in pension funds for widows and orphans but statistically speaking it is not likely. sImply because most of the world's wealth is not owned by widows and orphans.

    Most of the world's 'wealth' is held oin the form of debt backed paper and most of it is owned by the super wealthy. It is a fact thatt the top 10% of America owns 80% of all the wealth and assets. So if all the debt backed wealth in America were defaulted upon the wealthies 10%c would take 80% of the loss. The rest of America INCLUDING their pensions would suffer 20% of the losses.

    So long as teh people aere forced to pay the debts it will be the 80% who pay the most while the top 10% will pay vitually nothing since they are also the tax avoiders.

    By insisting on debt instuments being brough on-shore and audited we find out who owns what, they pay tax on it and we get to value it.

  23. Golem XIV - Thoughts May 27, 2011 at 6:58 pm #

    Bryan and jambarama,

    I have read the Reddit thread discussion. I have to say it comes across as a thread of people who had not really bothered to read the article or think about it, but proceeded straight to declaring it naive, stupid and wrong. It seemd more like a colleciton of clucking Chicken Littles all shouting that such talk was going to bring the sky down on our heads.

    Actually all we are talking about is a way of trying to net out debts during a general default or restructure. Both default and restructure work fine and don't lead to a bond market shut out, despite people restating it as if it were a fact. The evidence is there if you care to look it up, nations are not locked out for more than a short time. For a simple reason – the bond market is greedy. Whena nation defaults some in the market get screwed. The others say, "Glad it wasn't me. But now they debt has been cleared this naiton is a better bet" and so they do business with the new debt free nation. As I say the evidence is before you. Just look it up.

    Netting out mutual debts is something that can be done. For example people raise the objection that much of the debt is private. True. Much of that private debt has now been pledged to Central banks as collateral. The central bank can simply declare that all assets in its vaults will be comsidered for cancelation. If a bank doesn't like it – great – buy back your debt and put it back on your books. Fact is many banks wouldn't be able to do this because they whole reason they unloaded the stuff in the first place is because with the debt on their books they are insolvent. Thus they are – to use the technical term – stuffed.

    Buy your debt back, you and your debt are free to go. Can't buy it back then you have nothing further to contribute to the discussion.

    Yes there will be losses. But they will be better distributed and once taken we can all, our pensions included, get back to solvency and stop this endless bleeding in order to 'save' the banks.

    Debt must be cleared from the system. Simple mathematice tells you if you don't compound interst will kill us all as the debts grow faster than our crippled economies

    It's called playing hard ball with the banks instead of kissing their arses.

    Nothing naive about it. Just a little out of the ordindary maybe, to not put banks and the financial class's welfare above that of everybody else.

  24. bill May 27, 2011 at 8:16 pm #

    I too read the the reddit thread and it there you find the other main problem, that of denial. One of the biggest problems is trying to explain the sheer scope and scale of the massive fraud and wealth grab that has taken place. When I try to start explaining how oil traders and commodity brokers cream a trillion dollars a year just in America I bibble.

    But the good news is that people are starting to think differently and as the new ideas develop so they will gain traction.

    My bugbear though still is personal debt. lets leave out mortgages and concentrate on card debt. My stint as a volunteer for CAB showed me these operators were more ruthless than a Nigerian e mail scam. people who patantly had no hope of paying such sums back were targeted, the card issuers confident that they could not lose with the fallback of heavy handed newly legalised baliff thuggery and tax write offs. I am talking people earning 15k pa 40k+ in debt and still being targeted…. until 2007/8 of course.

    Yes helping these people will cause moral hazard and yes some people played the system, but none even on a par withe the credit mongers. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this. bill40

  25. 24K May 27, 2011 at 8:54 pm #

    If a small percentage of humans have most of the wealth what is the problem of them putting their hand in their pocket so to speak, the numbers are way in their favour?

    Plus what Bill says, if these loans were made with due diligence, Linda Green, there would also not be a problem.

    Forget MacPuddock for PM, I now vote Crinkly.

    Can't stop the Necromoneycon, I mean what would they all do at these meetings then? Bridge? Naked Twister? Well the latter no doubt but if you want the world on it's knees a Debt Tsunami is more likely.

    It has a nice ring though Debt Jubilee, makes me wanna get some buntin and a troll trap, like a bear trap but you use a caring thought rather than honey for bait.


  26. Fungus FitzJuggler III May 28, 2011 at 4:10 pm #

    See effect of Mortgage Equity Withdrawals on GDP!!!

    Proof that Depression actually began in 1999 and was made worse by deception and beggaring of the banking system. Ireland's troubles only began after this!

  27. The MacPuddock. May 29, 2011 at 2:56 am #

    like a true politician I feel the need to get your vote back.
    I think the problem with debt scheme above is that it is not radical enough. I think it is trying to provide a bean counter solution. I am not against that in principle but I think it would be so laborious and complicated it wouldn't be practical and would descend into a free for all of credit and debt holders trying to manipulate to their advantage. However there may be a few cases where debts can be readily cancelled. My intuition tells me these would be a small proportion of the whole number.
    I think a great deal of the problem is that we have drifted into computer driven complexity which no-one can get levers over. The 'high bankers' are just incompetent, as well as greedy. But they are essentially human.(same as us). Demonising them is a mistake as it simply excuses them from any moral connection to the rest of the world. But we do need politicians with balls (or their female equivalent) and with a capacity for engagement in technical issues.

  28. cynicalHighlander May 29, 2011 at 9:52 am #

    One version of the many around the net.

    "It is early July in a small sleepy town along the north shore of a beautiful lake in America. It is hot and muggy and mid-week. The town is deserted. Times are tough for all the locals. Many are unemployed, business is down, everybody is in debt and everybody is getting by on credit.

    Suddenly a rich tourist comes into town – the first of the season. He enters the only hotel, lays a 100 dollar bill on the reception counter, and goes upstairs to inspect the rooms.

    Seeing the 100 dollar bill laying there the hotel proprietor scoops it up and runs down the street to the butcher to pay his outstanding debt.

    The butcher, in debt up to his eyeballs, takes the 100 dollar bill and runs to the local cattle rancher to pay off his debt.

    The cattle rancher takes the 100 dollar bill and runs to his feed supplier to pay his long overdue debt.

    The relieved feed supplier uses the 100 dollar bill to pay the balance owing on his debt to the fuel salesman.

    The fuel salesman returns to the hotel with the 100 dollar bill and pays his 2-night hotel bill that he would otherwise have not been able to pay.

    The hotel proprietor then lays the 100 dollar bill back on the counter so that the rich tourist will not suspect anything.

    A few minutes later the rich tourist comes down from inspecting the rooms and, saying that he found nothing to his liking, takes back his 100 dollar bill and promptly leaves town.

    It has been a day to remember thanks to that rich tourist. While no one actually earned anything the whole town is now without debt and is looking to the future with a great deal more optimism than when the day began."

  29. angryfutureexpat May 29, 2011 at 1:27 pm #

    Or, you know, just print the money necessary to "pay off" all debt in the system. Be a whole lot quicker and easier.

    Print it, give it to debtors to pay off the creditors, jubilee!

    Cynicalhighlander's example, but the sovereign plays the role of rich tourist.

  30. 24K May 29, 2011 at 6:12 pm #

    I'm a politition in my next music vid, funnily enough as PM. You wouldn't want me though, I'd take all those knobbily bits off monuments and benches so skaters can skate.

    50/50 grinds would be mandatory.

    @MacPurdock 😛

    I know what your saying but it's a good idea as it opens the door for a new way of thinking, anybody can get it and it's a step towards the "It's all fake so why should we pay? You pay or nobody pays" sorta thinking. If everybody in the street mentioned it it would give polititions something to think about, or dodge.

    Is it only me that looks back to the exspenses scam and thinks they hyped it to F so it looked like the little man won? Nothing has changed has it? I see no more transparency.

    Polititions with balls would be great I like balls

    We could get them some ourselves mind

    Push the mandatory grind bill through and the jobs yours bro.

  31. Turly May 30, 2011 at 3:04 pm #


    You may want to read the article again:

    Think about it – they all want the debts they owe each other to be paid in full – but since they can't afford to pay them, they have got our politicians to make US pay all the debts they owe to each other, for them.

    To me, that says politicians want to make US (the plebeian taxpayer) pay the debts. Nothing to do with the US government.

  32. MrShigemitsu May 30, 2011 at 9:07 pm #

    richard in norway

    "Nuke the caymans, no seriously"

    I couldn't agree more!
    WTF are we doing in Libya and Afghanistan?
    The BVI, Turks& Caicos, Caymans – and while we're at it Switzerland and Leichtenstein – surely these pose far more of a threat to our "way of life" than Iraq, Iran, Libya or Afghanistan put together?


    "The Fed monetizes our debt because the Floating Exchange Rates mechanism ensures that the owner of the reserve currency MUST monetize the debt of all sovereigns that recognize it as reserve currency.

    Thus it is not a matter of choice as much as it is a matter of policy… at least since we abrogated Bretton Woods… but even prior to that, with the Marshal Plan for example… which, incidentally, lead straight to the abrogation of Bretton Woods I might add….

    … if that makes sense…"

    I am a simple illustrator, here for an education…it makes no sense to me at all – but if you could spare the time to put that in terms a layman could understand I would be most grateful?

  33. guidoromero May 31, 2011 at 5:27 am #

    @ Turly

    Indeed sir. My bad. With apologies to Golem and all for the inconvenience. I have misread the "US" part of the sentence.

    @ Mr. Shigemitsu
    The Fed Res in fact does monetize our debt.

    The USA were the first to return to DBFM in the modern era in 1913. From that moment, the USA government embarked on a mission of debt expansion of galactic proportions. The first cracks appeared in 1929 at which point true to the logic of DBFM the US government doubled down and pushed deficit spending even farther. The depression lingered on till the late 30s at which point the Land Lease Act, whereby the USA pledged to arm the British government, helped begin to absorb the masses of the unemployed. In entering WWII, the USA were once again free to spend liberally and wantonly. Emerging victors as they did, the USA now had to confront a monetary base of gargantuan proportions which if a safety valve could not be found would have destroyed the Dollar sooner than necessary.
    How do you release massive pent up inflation? Well, for one you can loan it out outside your own system. Enter the Marshall Plan, the United Nations and the IMF and the World Bank whose aim was and still is to spread credit and money far and wide throughout the world.

    Things were going relatively well for a while although, clearly, the diminishing marginal utility of debt would bring about the implosion of the system. By 1970 France precipitated the crisis of a global monetary system that at that point could be compared to the proverbial balloon in search of a pin.

  34. guidoromero May 31, 2011 at 5:46 am #

    Nixon closing the gold window was an inspired strategy though a risky one.

    Essentially the USA offered the EU a deal they could not refuse and it went something like this:

    "OK guys. Please don't ask for the gold you think you are entitled to in exchange for the Dollars you have accumulated over the past 25 years. Since we are such good friends, we propose that we let you make use of our Dollars as a way to establish a sound basis for your monetary system. Actually! We'll go one better because we like you so much. Not only will we allow you to use our Dollars as reserve but we'll allow you to adopt DBFM that you can print yourselves."

    When our leaders queried the USA as to why they should want to accept this deal, the answer was two fold. The first part of the answer was implicit as the USA pointed at the big bad bear hiding behind the iron curtain implying that if Europe did not accept the deal the USA may not be inclined to protect them anymore. The second part of the answer was much more tangible and pulls at the heart strings of any politician worth his salt; that is that by adopting DBFM they could print all the money they wished thus being able to spend liberally.

    A hard sell it was not.

    So Bretton Woods was abrogated, Europe went on a DBFM system based on Floating Exchange Rates (Dollar based) and they system was then gradually expanded to most other countries globally.

    This ensured the US Dollar inflation that had been accumulated from 1913 till 1970 could now be released into all markets around the world thus enabling the USA to embark on much greater monetary expansion…. till today…

    So, what now?

  35. guidoromero May 31, 2011 at 5:55 am #

    Every time the credit markets show signs of seizing, the USA must intervene. It is not a choice. It is what needs to be done in order to keep DBFM alive.

    Ultimately, the arithmetical logic of DBFM results in the transfer all the productive capacity of society to a restricted circle of financial interests. The transfer is monetary initially but when an economy finally succumbs to the realities of the diminishing marginal utility of debt, then the transfer takes the form of tangible assets.

    The most recent case in point of course is Greece that is now asked to sell state assets to private interests. But of course, at this stage of the game, the only entities left with any money to purchase assets are, by and large, financial interests….

    And Bob is your uncle.

  36. forensicstatistician May 31, 2011 at 10:29 am #


    An excellent summation of the strategy. Have you read Michael Hudson’s “SuperImperialism” by any chance? It all goes back to the early 20th Century with, as you say the “Lend lease” agreements, and the utter enforcement of international debt contracts (incl. reparations).

    Since the mid 1970s the Dollar has been a “Petrodollar standard”. Therefore the USA can enforce the Debt Based Fiat Money system through the Military Industrial Complex.

    US Dollar = DBFM = Global reserve currency = PetroDollar

    But with oil (the very lifeblood of the MIC) peaking, then this unholy alliance will have no option but to unwind:

    Peak oil = Petrodollar collapse = Global reserve currency shock = Debt based money disillusionment = Dollar extinction (hyperinflation)

    The debt is not getting destroyed, just “doubled-up” as you say through periodic liquidity injections. The dollar has been debased for decades now, and it’s just getting worse and worse. This is surely a recipe for hyperinflation, but with the canny holding title to tangible assets. See:


  37. wirplit May 31, 2011 at 10:34 am #

    Just to be clear because these things can frazzle the brain…in your simple explanation to The Mac Pudduck… of two people owing a tenner who cancel each other's debt you state that each then has a tenner to spend to fix the roof. …er ? how? Surely each has nothing?

    Slightly off topic but highly topical this gives a nice clear graphic view of who is going to suffer most when Greece defaults.. the question being how long can they keep it floating meanwhile
    Who gets slammed

  38. wirplit May 31, 2011 at 10:41 am #

    And another snappy guide to the Spanish situation
    The complete guide to the oncoming Spanish Debt crisis

  39. Golem XIV - Thoughts May 31, 2011 at 10:47 am #


    Sorry I was perhaps not clear. WHat I meant by eaching now having a tenner to spend was just to say that now, not having to divert savings to pay debts, both would have the money they were saving to spend on better things.

    It's not a way to make money appear. It's a way to stop it disappearing into creditors pockets.

  40. MrShigemitsu May 31, 2011 at 4:55 pm #

    guidoromero: Thank you for that – explains a great deal.

    Was this end result foreseen or unforeseen when the decisions were made to abandon the gold standard?

    ie, was the intention all along to create conditions for a fire sale, to the point where it's suggested that a sovereign nation needs to sell off its islands to oligarchs in order to pay back borrowed paper money?

    If so, that's some mighty impressive forward planning.

  41. fitzy103 May 31, 2011 at 5:49 pm #

    I think this is the cirlce of debt…

    1. “Spain is not Greece.”Elena Salgado, Spanish Finance minister, Feb. 2010

    2. “Portugal is not Greece.” The Economist, 22nd April 2010.

    3. “Ireland is not in ‘Greek Territory.’”Irish Finance Minister Brian Lenihan.

    4. “Greece is not Ireland.”George Papaconstantinou, Greek Finance minister, 8th November, 2010.

    5. “Spain is neither Ireland nor Portugal.”Elena Salgado, Spanish Finance minister, 16 November 2010.

    6. “Neither Spain nor Portugal is Ireland.”Angel Gurria, Secretary-general OECD, 18th November, 2010

    If you understand this lot, you havent been paying attention…

  42. 24K May 31, 2011 at 6:41 pm #


  43. Golem XIV - Thoughts May 31, 2011 at 6:45 pm #


    What a marvelous muddle. Thank you.

  44. bill May 31, 2011 at 7:38 pm #

    @ fitzy

    Thank you for that great comment which I am spreading far and wide. Needless to say I am taking all the credit for it and trying to trick people into thinking I could come up with such a comment with my own intellect.

    @ Golem.

    I am frankly shocked and disapointed there has been no further blog from you this extended weekend. Anyone would think you had a family and social life outside of ths august blog.

    Hang your head in shame, your fans await a small does of sanity!!

  45. fitzy103 May 31, 2011 at 10:39 pm #

    Feel free to pass on as your own. I cut n pasted the quotes from elsewhere myself.

    I've passed on enough of Golems thoughts as mine…

  46. Fungus FitzJuggler III June 1, 2011 at 5:28 am #

    We all should be familiar with the "Island Bankster" paradox, by now?

    Too much paper capital has been created by the money machine. Repaying is now too onerous and the inevitable is now evident?

    Most of these paper claims will turn out like Weimar currency, to be worthless. Sanity requires an orderly disposal of these claims to assets which will simply not be, and in many cases, cannot be, surrendered.

    It is a test, not merely of morality, but of intellect, to see those who espouse any other "solution".

    It is an indictment of government that most of these claims end up in their hands! Anarchy is merely a recognition that many aspects of government are not merely worthless and wasteful, but damaging.

    Let us repair the damage done to public perception of how we govern ourselves?

    The quicker the better!

  47. RogerGLewis June 1, 2011 at 5:43 am #

    First Fitzy I am chuckling away even as I write this that's a slam dunk very very funny.

    On the debt cancellation It seems to me that it would work perfectly well as would the point that if any holders of deposits wish them recognised in a reconstructed economic system they would have to be brought on shore and properly taxed before being credited into the new Money. The EURO Might be a total sham but it shows that individual countries can adopt a new currency indeed system of banking in the computer age the old system looks increasingly un-necessary

    Guidos analysis of the interdependencies and exponentialities of the Fiat Money Dollar backed Global economy is spot on and I fear Guido is also correct that War is the preferred method of getting the genie back in the bottle in the event of revolting plebs.Killing several birds etc.

    The War of Terror is a war on Islamic Finance Laws, Iraq Libya and Iran all point to this as Ellen Brown writes so persuasively. Pakistan and Afganistan are very good for destabalising the borders of China and India both of which Countries are threatening the Petro Dollar Hedgemony.

    I Think that Carbon Trading might be some sort of precursor to enhancing the Petro Dollar from another angle. CO2 is a busted Flush in my opinion in Climate Science it is one part of a very complex dynamic system( not for now in interests of brevity) . I believe Carbon Taxing and Trading is Tied up in issues of Peak Oil, notions of Black Gold and the suppression of alternative energy technologies, Food and Energy are other areas that have become highly concentrated and dependancies built into the system of Global Corporate Fascism we are subjected to now is very much tied into the equation.

    forensicstatistician said…
    US Dollar = DBFM = Global reserve currency = PetroDollar

    Peak oil = Petrodollar collapse = Global reserve currency shock = Debt based money disillusionment = Dollar extinction (hyperinflation)

    I would plug CO2 iunto the equation here.

    Peak Oil ( Limit approaching zero substitute Carbon Trading) = another throw of the dice for the current system.

    US Dollar = DBFM = Global reserve currency = PetroDollar

    Alternative energy, New Economic Paradigm?

    Is there a revolution / 21st Century Renaissance or do we descend into a sort of 4th Reich Dystopian slavery.

    One final point on Money, I am studying Unto this last John Ruskin presently and He has this to say about what we think we know about money.
    "Pardon me. Men of business do indeed know how they themselves
    made their money, or how, on occasion, they lost it. Playing a
    long-practised game, they are familiar with the chances of its
    cards, and can rightly explain their losses and gains. But they
    neither know who keeps the bank of the gambling-house, nor what
    other games may be played with the same cards, nor what other
    losses and gains, far away among the dark streets, are
    essentially, though invisibly, dependent on theirs in the lighted
    rooms. They have learned a few, and only a few, of the laws of
    mercantile economy; but not one of those of political economy."

  48. guidoromero June 1, 2011 at 6:13 am #

    @ Mr. Shigemitsu

    "If so, that's some mighty impressive forward planning"

    I detect disbelief in your tone Sir … LOL…

    Without going too far back in history, Thomas Jefferson is probably one of the most prominent politicians of the modern era to have fought a pitched battle against financial interests and central banks. Mr. Jefferson clearly saw the transfer of wealth inherent in a monetary system controlled by a third party that is shielded and independent from society.

    Frederic Bastiat too understood the aberration of government protection of a monetary authority that is bestowed the privilege to charge interest on something that costs nothing and that society is forced to make use of.

    Without looking that far back however, today there are a handful of politicians that understand the logical evolution of DBFM. Ron Paul in the USA and Olafur Ragnar Grimsson are two prominent examples.

    Abandoning DBFM means putting an immediate stop to frivolous politics. And that is exactly the problem we are faced with. Regardless of the color or stripe, politics is a gravy train. But the engine of this gravy train is the monetary system. Change the nature of money and you instantly change the nature of politics.

  49. Fungus FitzJuggler III June 1, 2011 at 7:27 am #

    Remember, remember, the WIZARD OF OZ!

    The little men behind the curtain can be hoist on their own petard? Those laws if applied to them, will rid us of them until their progeny arise from the ashes.

    A few more absurdities, as enumerated by Roger G Lewis and those who perceive the end game is near will precipitate such a denouement. They will turn on the others in their cabal.

    Where is Eliot Spitzer? He deserves rehab?

  50. guidoromero June 1, 2011 at 2:37 pm #

    I had read somewhere that the Wizard of Oz was in fact an allegory of the titanic battle that was taking place at the time between those politicians that wanted to abdicate control of society to the banks and the politicians opposed to it.

    Anyway; it's all been said before.

    "If the American people (ed. or any other people) ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation, and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property, until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power of money should be taken from banks and restored to Congress and the people to whom it belongs. I sincerely believe that the banking institutions having the issuing power of money are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies.
    (Thomas Jefferson)

    "Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws." (Mayer Amschel Rothschild)

    “Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again.”
    (Sir Josiah Stamp) [1880-1941] former Director, Bank of England

    “The State is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else.” Frederic Bastiat

  51. fitzy103 June 1, 2011 at 4:09 pm #

    In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: Not necessarily to Win, but mainly to keep from Losing Completely.

    Hunter Thompson – Gonzo Papers, Vol. 1: The Great Shark Hunt: Strange Tales from a Strange Time (1979)

  52. MrShigemitsu June 1, 2011 at 4:34 pm #


    No….not disbelief at all!

    Perhaps a stunned admiration for such a magnificent "long con".

    Interestingly, some comments on Zerohedge today, postulating the same idea about Greece – it was an intentional policy to lend money that when not repayable, would result in the grabbing of distressed assets.


  53. Fungus FitzJuggler III June 2, 2011 at 2:17 am #


    "Greece needs more money"!!!!!!!!!!!

    It clearly needs less debt!

  54. forensicstatistician June 2, 2011 at 9:14 am #

    Sounds like Professor Michael Hudson has been reading this blog and stealing Golem’s ideas!

    "The creditors know that the game is up. All they can do is take as much as they can, as long as they can, pay themselves bonuses that are 'free' from recapture by public prosecutors, and run to their offshore banking centers."

    Excerpt from the upcoming book
    "Debts that Can’t be Paid, Won’t Be" by Prof. Hudson, to be published later this year.

  55. forensicstatistician June 2, 2011 at 10:53 am #

    Whoops. Inadvertedly seem to have re-cycled the Hudson quote & article from cynicalHighlander above!

    Consider it a suplementary endorsement though!

    It’s an excellent article, and I can’t wait for the book. Shame Hudson is almost invisible to the UK media.

  56. Crinkly & Ragged Arsed Philosophers June 2, 2011 at 1:52 pm #

    Slightly off the topic; but not the point.

    A little boy asks his dad, “Dad, what’s politics?”
    Dad thinks for a bit and say’s, “Well son, let me explain it this way. I’m the breadwinner for the family, so let’s call me Capitalism. Your Mum, she’s the administrator of the money so we’ll call her Government.

    We’re here to take care of your needs, so we’ll call you Human Needs. The nanny we’ll consider her the Working Class. And your baby brother we’ll call him the Future.

    Now think about that and see if it makes sense.” So the wee boy goes off to bed pondering on what his Dad has said.

    Later that night he hears his baby brother crying and gets up to check on him. He finds the baby has seriously filled its nappy, so goes into his parent’s room only to find his mother in a deep sleep. Not wanting to wake her, he goes to the nanny’s room and finds the door’s locked. Peeping through the keyhole he sees’s his dad’s in bed with the nanny so he gives up and goes back to bed.

    Next morning he tells his father, “Dad, I think I understand the concept of politics now.”

    Dad looks chuffed and say’s, “Good son, tell me in your own words what you think politics is about.”

    The boy replies,” Well, while capitalism is screwing the working class, the government is sound asleep, human needs are ignored and the future is in deep shit.”

  57. guidoromero June 3, 2011 at 9:18 am #

    … cringe….

    It is only a joke of course… but it does perpetuate a perception that is untested and likely wrong and painting government as an unwitting victim.

  58. bearbonez June 11, 2011 at 4:37 pm #

    A People's Debt Jubilee, an interesting concept but it would surlely require all the concerned nations to be of the same revolutionary frame of mind at the same time. A truely utopian future but highly unlikely I would think.
    A much more creditable scenario is the "audit committee" as used by Ecuadore and as proposed in the documentary Debtocracy (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xik4kh_debtocracy-international-version_shortfilms) I came across in this article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2011/jun/09/debtocracy-film?INTCMP=SRCH)
    This film seems to be sweeping through the greek population and I would predict it will sweep through Spain and Portugal.
    Unfortuantly the Irish seem to be acting like the sheeple and mushrooms here in the UK. I'd like to know what you think 😉
    Great blog and great posts

  59. Golem XIV - Thoughts June 11, 2011 at 8:28 pm #


    Thank you for your comment. I hope we'll see you around again.

    I agree about the audift committee. It's something I wrote about on 30.3.11 in a piece called Ireland, greece and Portugal should default.

  60. ozzydave August 3, 2011 at 7:26 pm #

    "I've passed on enough of Golems thoughts as mine…"
    31 May 2011 23:39

    'Spreading the word' is the life blood of any grass roots movement, and what better way to achieve that than to REFERENCE the ideas/explanations that we incorporate into our postings on other forums/comments sections? In so doing, we direct people to a(nother) place where they can read/understand more. I hope this hasn't sounded too stern, it hit me quite hard though.

  61. don wreford November 20, 2011 at 7:51 am #

    The finance complexity is overwhelming to understand all aspects of the riddle that confronts the public, having said the foregoing, we must attempt to demystify this process as the implications being serious, I am suggesting the following, after the 2nd WW. to my knowledge the share market primarily was monopolized by stockbrokers who were on in the in circle of trading, you could say they were all insider traders, however the idea evolved to get everyone in the stock market as this would still be the insiders and the mugs, the outsiders, also the bonus is on all trades money is made on fees charged, this also enabled the insiders to work hedge funds and all the schemes allied to legalizing theft of the punters being another bonus, also no one could be successfully charged with a crime, the the Banking intelligentsia devised obtaining money by false pretence’s from government obtaining money from taxpayers and reducing the standard of living of people, that had the perversity of satisfaction of seeing people impoverished and they the Bankers become the new overlords and rulers.

  62. jimmy b May 16, 2012 at 1:20 pm #

    Being new to this site and only slightly more knowledgable than the average punter i find all of this enormously interesting, but i think the biggest problem is that with all the obvious intelligence shown by many and various contributors the biggest problem is how on earth are we to educate the rest of the population.
    Ihave already had a link to this site removed from the telegraph website without any notification the banks big brother is watching so to speak, and although i’m not in the least suprised this means that some of the bigger brained of us need to get the info out. power to the people ha ha one day maybe.

    • Golem XIV May 16, 2012 at 2:12 pm #

      Jimmy b,

      Welcome to you. Thank you for trying to link to this article. It may be the title itself which was automatically removed. I didn;t think about it at teh time but one of teh red-flag phrases the autnomatic wather systems ae programmed to look for is “How to destroy….”

      I really didn;t think about it at the time. But within 20 minutes of the post going up I had three different US intelligence agencies come on line to pick it up.

      Or it could be some knob at the Telegraph.

      But thank you anyway and I hope very much you’ll stick around and join our varied group of dissenters.

  63. stone June 25, 2012 at 6:53 pm #

    The way to destroy the web of debt and rescue the global economy would be to replace all existing taxes with a flat asset tax on all gross asset values (cash, real estate, bonds, stocks, commodities, collectables etc etc) where ever those assets are held and where ever in the world a citizen is resident. Otherwise debt NEEDS to get more and more out of hand simply to counteract the fact that money gathers more money. So long as asset values provide a sink for salting away wealth, our only choice is between escalating indebtedness or a debt deflation depression.

  64. sfsxxsf December 3, 2014 at 7:26 am #

    Though at its most extreme you can get tests for specific food allergens done, there are several types of foods that can contribute to this condition. http://nba2k15cheats.net


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