Governments and markets bleat on so wetly like slack jawed drunkards, about restoring confidence. Well here is an idea. Not a big idea, but an achievable one.
Take one bank, just one will do, one mostly publicly owned and audit it for its debt. Audit it in public. A debt commission for a public bank. Brush aside the self interested splutterings about Commercial Confidentiality. We own the vast majority of it. We’re on teh hook for its losses and have lsot billion on it already. It’s our bank we’ll audit it if we want to.
In the UK it would be RBS. In Germany it could be HRE (Hypo Real Estate) Every country has one. Set up a commission with representatives of NGO’s and Unions as well as ‘experts’ just to make sure the banks don’t just get their KPMG pals to white wash the whole thing for their usual fee ( I have a nice little story about KPMG for you later). Do it in public and do it fast.
The argument against those who say it would be a disaster is the classic one, “If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear.” They say RTBS is a going concern out of which we will make a profit from our shares. To be sure. In which case you’ll have nothing to hide will you?
I want to know exactly what RBS’s debts and its assets are, I want to know who they owe money to and what the agreements say. Same goes for loans made by the bank. Who, what terms, how much and I want to hear from the people who made the deals.
Of course one major fear would be that if the truth about RBS’s assets were known and priced this would effectively price not only the assets and liabilities of all the counter-parties to the RBS deals but also those who held or made similar deals.
My argument there is – “What, we can’t know what we are liable for and what we are paying for, because it might harm someone else entirely, someone I don’t know, and with whom I have no agreement? I don’t think so. It’s nothing personal you understand, it just business.”
I personally, as a tax payer, was taken into a vastly costly deal blindfolded. I want the blind fold removed. Don’t tell me ‘experts’ have looked at it for me. I do not believe those ‘experts’ have any concern for me or mine. I think they are working for interests other than mine and I do not thin., thereofer, their opinions are worth anything to me.
We own the vast majority of RBS. I think the only reason we don’t own it all is because if we did it would be liable to Freedom of Information Requests. But nevertheless we own it and we therefore have both a moraal and legal right to konw what it is we were forced in to buying and also forced into insuring. We have a right to demand a publicly conducted Debt Commission.
The other argument of course is that we would harm ourselves by uncovering potentially ugly truths and ‘undermining the credibility of UK bank confidentiality.’ My answer is, we are and will contue to be exposed to greater harm by continuing the present untrusted and untrustworthy lying and dissembling. He who comes clean first will reap far greater benefits than those who wait.
Would this idea cause problems and pain? Yes. There is no easy pain free exit from where we are now. But would it restore confidence in the longer term? Yes it would in a way that three years of official lying and dissembling have not and will not.
Hi David,
I think it would be a good start. Do you think we could get 100.000 people to agree on it? Not that I have any faith in petitions to the Gov, but they have reopened their site…
Hadn't thought of that, but even a petition soundly ignored can make for good propaganda. Let's see if anyone else thinks the idea is worth a candle.
It would certainly be good to be doing something positive, maybe get something up on facebook & twitter, I for one would like to help. I somehow think it would be harder to get support for than capital punishment, unfortunately.
Audit The Dead
Tools . Get the verchow skull breaker out and crack open that baby.
Can't get the leather roll of rusty knives and bone saws out of my head now.
Anybody see this clip on Max Keiser?
The dude said insurrection. May have started because of some numpty with a glock and some teenager thinking he's in Harry Brown but if the undead weren't walking about sucking the life out off everything the UK wouldn't be on fire because they'd all be working. Safest place for anybody there is the job centre.
Although nobody bothers when I go down the wrong road Steviefinn, Don't hit me with those negative waves
Have a little faith baby.
I have filed a request for this petition at the epetitions website.
@city2city
Let us know when it's up, won't you?
@ 24K
I wasn't aware I was being negative, just realistic. If I have been negative, then I apologise. Perhaps if you had walked where I have, you would understand.
@ Demon
Just take away their power & it's trappings, I think that would be the worst thing for them. Put them on an island with a hut & give each of them a small piece of land to provide for their needs & leave them to it & let dog eat dog.
Stevie, Demon and city2city,
Thank you.
Hello 24k. How are you, you rascal?
This is right on the nail. FWIW I've posted on FB but the petition is the thing. I've got lots of contacts to send it to.
I've been thining more about this today and wonder what people think of trying to get similar petitions or demands launched in more than just teh UK? Every naiton has at least one bank that has been vastly bailed out by the public and is now owned by them.
All too often European affairs seem to serve for pitting one people against another in the same old 'johnny foreigner' sort of way. I for one would feel great knowing that I was standing alongside Irish and Greek people making common demands against the finacial class who are riding us all.
DO you think it might do some good to try to launch something that could give people a sense of common cause across several European countries? A common people's campaign?
The powers that be would not like the idea at all that people could make common cuase acoss frontiers. They are much happier when they can fan flames of bigotry and blame and set us against each other.
I don't know if there is any mechanism or outlet in other countries to try to launch such an idea but if it was possible, to try to launch some common campaign in several countries would in itself be news.
Just a thought.
Hi all,
David: As I see it, the best way to spread the word quickly is to recruit somebody with presence in the media. It might be the only way it can light the fire quick enough (no rioting innuendo). It worked for Island. If the idea catches in the UK, then it would be easier to spread it abroad. Anybody with a (serious) celeb friend around?
City2city: thanks for your initiative. Please let us know if it gets through. BTW, who did you address the petition to? I myself had a look at the site, but was confused regarding the best recipient: Her Majesty Treasure, Attorney General's Office, Ministry of Justice, Cabinet office? I thought that if it was to be done, it'd better be done properly.
If you want international reach, go for http://www.avaaz.org – over 9 million members worldwide.
38degrees.org.uk would help too.
@Demon I requested the petition at the government website http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ if it were to get 100,000 signers it would have a chance of being debated in Parliament. It can take up to 7 days for approval.
@Golem XIV I would agree with other posters. 38 Degrees would be an excellent group to get behind a campaign for an Audit. Probably best to focus on one bank once with the outrage that would produce the rest would follow.
@ Golem
In Ireland we have had lots of tribunals looking into how things were done, the trouble is that 1) they take years 2) they cost millions 3) No matter how public, someone gets paid off and information "gets lost".
We have the ideal candidate bank in AIB, which i believe is 98% state owned but I don't think it will happen because Irish people let things happen and then deal with the BS afterwards rather than face things head on. Just look at WhistleblowerIrl, that is the level of bullshit that anybody that wants change is up against over here. If you guys can make it work over there then i will do anything i can to spread the word to help the cause. Ireland is a lost cause unless we can rally the publicans 😉
Best of luck for now
Paddy Fields: That's why a good wording of a petition matters. We cannot ask for a simple audit, which would end up in the hands of KPMG-look-alikes. We ought to demand a committee of the kind proposed by Golem.
city2city: I've been hammering 38 degrees to tackle on banksters for months, but they seem to be focused only on the NHS. You'll need a critical mass suggesting this action on their website.
Regarding the epetition, I was asking about who did you address your petition to. You have to choose this from a drop-down list when you file it.
Please do the petition but do sound out 38degree folk, they operate really well and may be more available down a phone line than avaaz
Steviefinn, realistic is the word, maybe that's what I've been lately, having a Lao Tsu moment.
I'm sure he was no fun at parties and I bet you we're both first up on the dancefloor.
G I'm rasclalacious bro. I think trying to learn how to use new camera that looks mint if done correct but otherwise looks bunk is taking longer than planned so videos are in a state of flux. Getting vision to video is, well you know, it's Tricky. Hope stuff isn't as tricky as it was for you dude.
I just saw Cameroon saying he won't accept terror in the UK and yet they harp on about threat levels all the time. If you don't want terror in the UK take yourself and your zombie buddies and F__K OFF.
@city2city
Hi there. Any reply from the petitions site? did they accept your petition? If so, I'd be grateful if you could post its URL somewhere in this blog.
Thanks